WotC Replies: Statements by WotC employees regarding Dragon/Dungeon going online

[Vigilance]

Imagine they did that for a minute. Imagine the furor that would cause if WOTC brought out something in direct competition with its own licensee and drilled them into the ground. I'm not saying that its a foregone conclusion, but, let's just picture that scenario for a moment.

1. WOTC loses money because Paizo can't pay the licensing fees.
2. WOTC looks like a complete bastard because the big guy beat up the little guy.

Where is the win situation for WOTC in that scenario? If Paizo continues and continues to do well, then it competes with WOTC using WOTC's own material. Remember, Paizo doesn't have to spend a dime to come up with any of the books that it uses as a basis for articles in the magazine. Those eight pages a month of class acts are drawn competely from WOTC PI. A good quarter of all the monsters appearing in Dungeon adventures are drawn from WOTC PI. All the "campaign classics" articles, Forgotten Realms, Volo's Guides, Eberon articles, etc. all drawn from WOTC PI.

True, paid for by the license.

But, how would WOTC benefit from allowing that to continue if they are going to do it themselves, regardless of format?

People expect them to be charitable I guess.

Or, at best, to treat it like a hobby, not a business, because it's a hobby to them.

 

[Ourph]

A certain percentage of gamers will be drawn to P&P RPGs. They will like the ultimate customizability, the ability to tell a story, their OWN story, etc.

You seem to be a fan of other people providing proof to back up their predictions. Would you like to share with us the market research that supports yours?

 

[carmachu]

The user base of D&D is significantly different than the user base of these two magazines.

Their statement in Dragon #351 says:
41,772 (13,517 from subs) for the most recent issue.
47,220 (13,438 from subs) average for the last 12 months.

That's a bit less than 1% of the known D&D community (active player base of 5 million).

And while some purchases were passed from person to person accounting for more people than the purchases represent, a lot were also from people not really reading the magazines much at all, if at all. I know for myself, I stopped reading them even while my subscription continued, and the same happened with my DM (who let his subscription lapse). Which is why I feel the published numbers are the most accurate we are going to get as far as how many "users" were/are in the "userbase" of those magazines.

If your going to say "well, its only 1% read the magazines" as a guideline, how many actually use their forums? I'd hazard it isnt that many either.....

I love the magazines, but rarely if ever check their website. I'd rather be here or elsewhere.

Why they couldnt do both is beyond me and cover all the bases....

 

[Storm Raven]

Right, just like people who MMOs here are gamers who MIGHT like P&P RPGs if exposed to them.

People keep saying Dragon introduced them to the hobby.

Putting Dragon online is the best way to reach Asia, a population several times the size of the US.

Maybe. Of course, putting Dragon online shouldn't preclude having Dragon in print, but that appears to not be an option.

But I say it is only a "maybe" that going online is a way to reach the Asian market and expand the fan base in the same way that the print version of Dragon did in the past because I don't think that online material will work similarly in that regard.

Most people who were introduced to D&D via Dragon seem to have been introduced by a friend lending them a copy, or as a result of an impulse buy of a single issue at a gaming store or newstand while they were looking for something else (such as looking for a fantasy or science fiction novel or magazine). Those sorts of avenues don't seem to be available for online content. You can't really lend a copy to a friend. Subscribing to an online service strikes me as not really being an impulse buy. Basically, I would expect that WotC will sell their DI subscriptions (assuming they are selling subscriptions for the service) almost exclusively to their existing fanbase.

My guess is that, in time, this decision by WotC will turn out to have been penny wise, and pound foolish.

 

[Vigilance]

You seem to be a fan of other people providing proof to back up their predictions. Would you like to share with us the market research that supports yours?

Ive provided quite a few numbers actually.

The 5,000,000 gamers, 50,000 subscribers number was provided by me, from Paizo's website.

As was the number of internet users in the three Asian countries Russia, China and India, 200 million, about the population of the entire USA.

I don't have all the answers and have been pretty clear I think, that I am offering opinions. But I've actually provided more numbers than a lot of posters in these threads to back up WHY I have those opinions.

So what other numbers do you think I should be providing? I've given numbers to back up exactly why I think this move will reach MANY more potential gamers than Dungeon did and thus why I think it's a great idea.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

WotC has said next to nothing on its digital initiative, but IMO it's pretty clear the whole thing is meant to bring the P&P RPG, at least in part, online, in hopes of expanding it's customer base by appealing to the MMPORG crowd.

Which I just can't see working. Let's put ourselves in a MMORPG player's position (I know it hurts, it's terrible, but bear with me )

After one great raid where you have found some really great loot, you chat a little with some fellow guild members, and one mentions D&D being online now. No, not Stormreach, but the classical D&D game in online form.

So you sign up for a trial account and get into some introductory game. The character creation was nice enough (though it didn't let you customize your character's appearance), and the game starts.

About five minutes into the game, you ask when you're done chatting and going to start the game, only to find out that you're already playing.

"What!" you exclaim, "no graphics engine? The game master is going to stay with us all day and write/teamspeak about what's happening? The stuff he's been blurting wasn't some nice tales from the last game? This is all there is to it??"

That nice trial account lasted 25 minutes before it was abandoned for good.



I doubt that the MMORPG crowd will be any more interested in D&D just because it's now online. I doubt that they're going to introduce some graphic engine to represent the deeds, and if they do, they haven't created online D&D, but merely another D&D computer game, like Neverwinter Nights or Stormreach, since that kind of environment just can't properly support all the possibilities of D&D.

An online platform to play will only really appeal to those who already know and love the roleplaying concept we know but can't play because they lack players in the near vicinity. For those it will be a real boon to have a decent system that makes it easy to play D&D over the internet (if they manage to make a decent system), where you don't have to bother about IP settings or something, where you can roll virtual dice and the DM (and everyone that needs to know) will see the result, the Character's stats are automatically maintained by the system (and the DM can see them any time) and all that.

If WotC somehow can, over time, bridge that gap, then they're golden. As for the traditional P&P RPGer, we must adjust or slowly die off to extinction.

Nah, as long as there will those willing to play in the old-fashioned way, it will be possible for them to do so. Wizards can't come and burn our books, they can't take away the SRD, so others could print rulebooks even if Wizards goes online for everything.

 

[Minicol]

I don't think WOTC could have handled this better.

The people who were upset, nay *outraged* would have been no matter how many details were released, what was said etc. They lost a security blanket. Something that let them know, no matter what, that the brand was ok.

They also don't think Wizards has the right to just cancel something, if they're not LOSING MONEY on it.

It's not enough for them to just think it's going to become less viable over time, while their alternative service will become more viable.

NO ! SORRY !
I could have listened to something more detailed. I am an adult.

Why should it be any less viable ? Because you believe online services are reliable at all ? Can you cite ANY really reliable online service ?

Even if I bought your service argument, how about EASE OF USE ?

Have you seen WOTC current website ? seriously ?
Crap content
Down half of the time
broken links

Sorry, but the TSR website from years ago was better, easier to use, and funnier. It speaks a lot about what to expect from this new initiative.

And to all of you who might agree with the above post :
This is an ENTERTAINMENT industry

When it's not fun any longer, it's DEAD ! Dead, dead, dead.

And it's been WAY too long since I had fun with new WOTC products.

 

[Minicol]

Ive provided quite a few numbers actually.



So what other numbers do you think I should be providing? I've given numbers to back up exactly why I think this move will reach MANY more potential gamers than Dungeon did and thus why I think it's a great idea.

BWHAHAHAHAHA !

And these people would ...

Join an outdated game ?
In a foreign language they don't understand ?
With no graphics ?
And it costs them the equivalent of their whole monthly salary just to get online ????

Adn that's assuling they are interested an any way at all ...

Do you also remember that a good part of these countries are dictatorships where free speech is not encouraged, Internet is police controlled, and access is monitored ?

Look at the state of the world and get real !

 

[Minicol]

Ive provided quite a few numbers actually.


So what other numbers do you think I should be providing? I've given numbers to back up exactly why I think this move will reach MANY more potential gamers than Dungeon did and thus why I think it's a great idea.

You are of course, entitled to your opinions. I just think you are WILDLY optimistic

 

[Jim Hague]

Sorry, I'd have to say the exact opposite. The magazines were better then they have been in years. Paizo has built up a huge presence and has a massive store, and Wizards wants to take back the magazines now that they are successful and build on that.

And that's great for Paizo - kudos to them, and I mean that. But it wasn't building D&D, it was building Paizo. Substantial and important difference. While it'll be interesting to see what WotC does with the DI, I think that trying to replicate the content from Paizo's side is just going to end badly. YMMV.

AT&T did the same thing with Cingular. Cingular bought out AT&T and the AT&T brand disappeared. Several years later Cingular has amassed a lot of clients and is doing well, so AT&T buys them. Happens all the time and makes sense.

Speaking as someone on the inside of that particular bit of business...ahh, no. It's a bit more complicated than that and not really applicable to the Paizo/WotC situation at all. Apples and oranges.