WotC Responds!!!

[JacktheRabbit]

I don't ever remember stating my opinion on this matter, so don't pretend that's what it's about.

If you are unwilling to recognize or answer too the fundamental flaw in your argument, go right ahead. Disagree with an argument nobody is making. Just don't be surprised when nobody cares.

It is your OPINION that my arguement is flawed.

Furthermore your EGO has decided that if in your OPINION my arguement is flawed then no one will listen to my arguement.

Why don't you go back to unfairly bashing FFE products. We all know that you secretly hate Jim Ward and live to ruin his perfect name in the Gamning industry.

 

[Necrobeer]

I am not advocating that we ban anything. I am saying that we can add this element to our games without an organized set of rules. I am fairly certain that most games do not run sexual encounters. I mean, which encounter is more likely.

Tavern maid: Yes, Oh Paladin, I will spend the night with you.
DM: k, the next morning, Taric seems happy with himself.

or

(Let roleplay it out all- in front of the whole group!)

Tavern maid: Wait, Mr. high and Mighty (She slips on her mask and pulls out her whip): You have been a Baaaad boy.
Paladin: Spank me, wench, I need some penance. I work with a rogue!


Yes, makes for a great comic routine, but not really great in-game encounters. I can see where a book on love, romance, childrearing etc could be useful to characters. But erotica!?

Dave

Depending on the game, I've seen both to some extent. Considering the nature of the pictures in said upcoming product, look at the art in the Quint series or in the Slayers' Guide series. I think that we should see pictures along those lines. Maybe some topless shots and rear nude shots, but nothing worse than what you might see in Maxim. My humble opinion on the subject.

 

[Mean DM]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Irrespective of my own opinion...

Originally posted by buzz At the very least, you should wait until the hype about this dies down. You're talking about a product that:

• Might not even be for real (I'm still reserving judgement)
• Could turn out to be vaporwarevapor warevaporervaporvaporersvaporsvaporizablevaporizevaporyvaporedvaporizedvaporizesappearedvaporizervaporizersvaporization (i.e., never see the light of day)
• Will most likely never be available in any FLGSFLfilesFELTLEGAL or book store any of your students will ever have access to
  [/list=a]

• 
  
  Yes, you do have a point in that I should wait to it actually comes out. I will read it first before I pass judgement. For me, however, the issue of access doesn't hold. As long as it is published and associated with the game, I will have to change my approach with my recommnedations. Again, this is not a pronouncement of doom, just a calculated desision. One that I want to simple add to all the opinions. For me it comes down to this. If I child (and I am talking about middle school here) ever got his/her hands on a book like this (assuming it comes out) and I have previously recommended d&d, I would be in serious trouble. I could even loose my job. Fair? No. Could it happen? Yes. I have seen teacher's fired for comparable things.
  
  Mark

 

[Psion]

It is your OPINION that my arguement is flawed.

It's not an opinion when it can be readily demonstrated. It's fact.

The person you were responding to did not call for banning.

Your follow up with a post stating if you ban X then you should ban Y. That's a fact.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Irrespective of my own opinion...

Yes, you do have a point in that I should wait to it actually comes out. I will read it first before I pass judgement. For me, however, the issue of access doesn't hold. As long as it is published and associated with the game, I will have to change my approach with my recommnedations. Again, this is not a pronouncement of doom, just a calculated desision. One that I want to simple add to all the opinions. For me it comes down to this. If I child (and I am talking about middle school here) ever got his/her hands on a book like this (assuming it comes out) and I have previously recommended d&d, I would be in serious trouble. I could even loose my job. Fair? No. Could it happen? Yes. I have seen teacher's fired for comparable things.

Mark

Question.

Let us say a student comes to you and asks for the name of a good director. The student is a potential film major and wants to focus on that.

You give him the name of a director say Bob Jones. Ok, great no problem right?

Two weeks later the students parents call to the school outraged because they caught their son with a couple porn movies. As it turns out before he became well known as a real director Bob did some pron directing.

Are you in danger of losing your job because you recommended a director and the student took that recommendation and searched out the worst possible in film choices from that director?

If no then why should DnD be any different? There are thousands of DnD supplements out now. Why should ONE bad one mean so much?

 

[Enceladus]

There are plenty of threads on this already. I'm closing this one. You might want to repost any relevant bits in a different thread.

This is apparently OK this time so...

I'm going to be excersizing my wrist..er..right as a consumer and I am not going to be buying this book. Most everyone here has a valid point yea, or nay. The only thing I take issue with is this:

Fourth, the BoEF will only serve to heighten the gamer stereotype of nerds playing the parents basements. It will serve to fuel the image that a bunch of guys with no social life and an inability to get a girlfriend, play this game. It is a stereotype that I have worked against for a decade. It has been bad enough trying to get past people's beliefs and let them see the truth. Most people will see this book and never even take the time to listen!

As a gamer, I personally could not give one rat's patootey what anyone thinks of me.

I'm 33 years old, I've been gaming for 20 years. I gave up trying to maintain some sort of "face" that others who would otherwise not understand what gaming is all about. I live my life, I obey the law, I raise my kids to be respectful and good, I game. If someone does't like that, it's thier problem, not mine, nor any other gamer.

Wear your gaming hats out in the open people.

OK, pep talk over.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

It's not an opinion when it can be readily demonstrated. It's fact.

The person you were responding to did not call for banning.

Your follow up with a post stating if you ban X then you should ban Y. That's a fact.

I see, you missed my point completely.

I was not suggesting we ban anything.

The person in question is against the product because people he thinks shouldnt have access to the product might be able to get access to it through various means.

I was merely pointing out that there are already products like that out on the market so his logic is flawed.

 

[Mallus]

Second, how will you keep this material away from kids? It will be impossible to keep gaming material out of the hands of children.

I'm not trying to be all flame-y here, but consider the case of books in general {which is far closer to game materials than booze, cigarettes and/or assault rifles...}.

A minor can purchase all manner of fantasy/SF/mainstream fiction is any chain bookstore that that contains relatively graphic content. And I'm not talking The Story of O, either {which, if I remember correctly, I purchased at Waldenbooks}.

There's been no hue and cry about that. So why treat gaming materials any differently?

 

[RigaMortus2]

If a game company wants to put out a book that isn't going to sell and probably lose money on it, so be it. Their loss, not mine.

 

[Psion]

I was not suggesting we ban anything.

I know. You said that BelenUmeria suggested we should ban things. Which is false.

The person in question is against the product because people he thinks shouldnt have access to the product might be able to get access to it through various means.

In the section you quoted, BelenUmeria asked the question "Second, how will you keep this material away from kids?" I think that's a fair question. Other products of the sort you mention DO have measures to keep them from kids, and the publisher would do well to consider these things, as the typical game store is not set up to have explicit material unless they are also a comic shop that has mature titles. It's a field that comic shops have had to naviagate.

Now one could question Belen's logic that the existence of this book will lead to further backlash in the bible belt, which I think would be a foregone conclusion.

Whatever the case, I don't see anywhere here a call for "banning", which was what you immediately lept too. You may think it a small leap, but I think it is an important one, as bandying about the "ban" is very provacative.

I was merely pointing out that there are already products like that out on the market so his logic is flawed.

That may be what you meant, but it's not what you said. You just talked about banning and if you ban x you should ban y.

Edit: Bad UBB code! Bad boy!