[WOTC] Revised Corebooks for July confirmed with info
- Thread starter TalonComics
- Start date
Value for money
To those who are complaining about having to purchase these books again, do you consider you have received value for money for those you currently have?
I purchased all three 3E core rulebooks as soon as they were released in Australia, at the then special introductory price of AU$30 apiece (they now retail for AU$60 apiece). Have I received value for my entertainment money since October 2000? Darn straight, I have. A new release softcover novel costs AU$15. Get a day's worth of entertainment out of that. A movie ticket costs $US10 if you go on a discount day. Get 90 minute's worth of entertainment out of that. A new release computer game costs AU$100. Get 20-30 hours of entertainment out of that. Wrestling with my kids on the lounge room floor; hmm, what's the cost of food, nappies, clothing, day care, externalities (irritating in-laws coming over, sleepless nights, suffering childhood diseases you should've caught when you were a kid, but didn't etc.)? How many pairs of shoes have you gone through since you bought your 3E books? How much did they cost? Did you get the expensive name brand ones, or the cheap ones? In the time you have had since you bought your 3E books, what other hobbies have you had, and how much money have they cost you? Buy an old car and do it up, and see how much that costs you. Then complain about how those bastards at WoTC are ripping you off not giving you "free upgrades" (no such thing, BTW). It's all about value for money. I have used my core rule books every week since I bought them. I have played 3E D&D most weeks since I bought them. I suspect there's an awful lot of other posters in the same boat. I personally have no difficulty forking out upwards of AU$200 for another set of books, because I know darn well that I'm getting a whole heap of a value for money.
Cheers, Al'Kelhar
To those who are complaining about having to purchase these books again, do you consider you have received value for money for those you currently have?
I purchased all three 3E core rulebooks as soon as they were released in Australia, at the then special introductory price of AU$30 apiece (they now retail for AU$60 apiece). Have I received value for my entertainment money since October 2000? Darn straight, I have. A new release softcover novel costs AU$15. Get a day's worth of entertainment out of that. A movie ticket costs $US10 if you go on a discount day. Get 90 minute's worth of entertainment out of that. A new release computer game costs AU$100. Get 20-30 hours of entertainment out of that. Wrestling with my kids on the lounge room floor; hmm, what's the cost of food, nappies, clothing, day care, externalities (irritating in-laws coming over, sleepless nights, suffering childhood diseases you should've caught when you were a kid, but didn't etc.)? How many pairs of shoes have you gone through since you bought your 3E books? How much did they cost? Did you get the expensive name brand ones, or the cheap ones? In the time you have had since you bought your 3E books, what other hobbies have you had, and how much money have they cost you? Buy an old car and do it up, and see how much that costs you. Then complain about how those bastards at WoTC are ripping you off not giving you "free upgrades" (no such thing, BTW). It's all about value for money. I have used my core rule books every week since I bought them. I have played 3E D&D most weeks since I bought them. I suspect there's an awful lot of other posters in the same boat. I personally have no difficulty forking out upwards of AU$200 for another set of books, because I know darn well that I'm getting a whole heap of a value for money.
Cheers, Al'Kelhar
Negative Zero said:
Two things. The first is that a large percentage of ENWorlders DM occasionally, or at least want to. The second is that especially among older gamers, the idea of hiding official rules from the players gets to be a bit silly. After 3 or 4 years of playing D&D 2, I knew most of what was in the DMG even if I didn't own one. And since I wasn't a starving college student anymore when D&D 3 game out, and I intended to DM at some point, I got all three books.
OTOH, I still haven't run a game of D&D 3 yet (I have run d20 WoT), and prefer to use NPCs as enemies anyway, so I'm not picking up a revised MM. And the other two will depend on the changes, and the state of wear and tear on my PH by July.
WizarDru said:
I agree with you 100% WizarDru. The biggest thing we will probably see is a slightly tweaked Ranger and Bard. I have a feeling that they have no intention of doing something as foolish as fracturing their fan-base into 3.0 and 3.1 camps.
The conversion stuff will probably be about how to convert your current Ranger and Bard into the newer version. Any other changes bigger then this won't fit in the extra pages I should think.
I will be buying them sight unseen simply to have all the errata in one place so I do not have to lug around a bunch of printed pages.
Dark Psion
First Post
Here's a thought, WoC created the OGL, maybe here's a chance for them to use it.
Things like the Thug NPC class from Traps & Treachery, Feats, new uses for Skills & Spells from various books and even a few new monsters.
Anything from other companies you would like to see in the revised books?
Things like the Thug NPC class from Traps & Treachery, Feats, new uses for Skills & Spells from various books and even a few new monsters.
Anything from other companies you would like to see in the revised books?
Nightfall
Sage of the Scarred Lands
Dark Psion said:
Yeah Relics and Rituals ritual casting spell section along with true rituals. (Which is open content)
More monsters from CC1 and CC2. (They just can't use the names)
A few magic items from Relics and Rituals 1. (They just can't use the names.)
Those are the ones I know about being OGC.
Re: Value for money
Those costs are unrelated to wrestling. How about gas money going to and from games? Snack expenses? The long term health expenses from eating all of those tons of fat and sugar over the years directly because of gaming (how do you affix a cost to shortening your lifespan by a couple of months, anyway)? The wear and tear on your shoes and clothing that wouldn't have occured if you were at home wearing pajamas? Oh, and how about medical expenses so you can stay alive and healthy long enough to play your next game?
Furthermore, I don't spend all that money on my children just so I can have the benefit of wrestling with them on the living room floor, unlike the expenses I mentioned above which can actually be directly attributed to gaming (except for the last one of course
). The expenses you mentioned are the cost of raising children whether or not I wrestle with them. If I raised my children solely for the purpose of wrestling with them, I think it would be time for me to re-evaluate my fatherhood.
This only serves to highlight my point though. Comparing D&D books to a movie is completely irrelevant just like comparing D&D books to wrestling with my children is. They are all based on completely different economic models and there are so many variables that it's irrelevant. What about the fact that the cost is only for 25% new material, thus making the true cost of this purchase closer to $360 in value per dollar?
Furthermore, the price/value of something does not have a direct correlation to the number of hours you spend enjoying something. The price/value of something is based on subjective matters of perceived value, competition, restricted availability, production and distribution method, economy of scale, advertising costs, etc. -- ultimately it's what the market will bear. If we had to pay $10 per person for every two hours of roleplaying gaming, roleplaying would pretty much completely die out as a market. I can pretty much guarantee you that. I wouldn't play anymore myself. It does not have the same perceived value per hour as going to movies does.
Comparisons along these lines have very little meaning in a direct hour-per-hour comparison.
Al'Kelhar said:
Those costs are unrelated to wrestling. How about gas money going to and from games? Snack expenses? The long term health expenses from eating all of those tons of fat and sugar over the years directly because of gaming (how do you affix a cost to shortening your lifespan by a couple of months, anyway)? The wear and tear on your shoes and clothing that wouldn't have occured if you were at home wearing pajamas? Oh, and how about medical expenses so you can stay alive and healthy long enough to play your next game?
Furthermore, I don't spend all that money on my children just so I can have the benefit of wrestling with them on the living room floor, unlike the expenses I mentioned above which can actually be directly attributed to gaming (except for the last one of course
). The expenses you mentioned are the cost of raising children whether or not I wrestle with them. If I raised my children solely for the purpose of wrestling with them, I think it would be time for me to re-evaluate my fatherhood.This only serves to highlight my point though. Comparing D&D books to a movie is completely irrelevant just like comparing D&D books to wrestling with my children is. They are all based on completely different economic models and there are so many variables that it's irrelevant. What about the fact that the cost is only for 25% new material, thus making the true cost of this purchase closer to $360 in value per dollar?
Furthermore, the price/value of something does not have a direct correlation to the number of hours you spend enjoying something. The price/value of something is based on subjective matters of perceived value, competition, restricted availability, production and distribution method, economy of scale, advertising costs, etc. -- ultimately it's what the market will bear. If we had to pay $10 per person for every two hours of roleplaying gaming, roleplaying would pretty much completely die out as a market. I can pretty much guarantee you that. I wouldn't play anymore myself. It does not have the same perceived value per hour as going to movies does.
Comparisons along these lines have very little meaning in a direct hour-per-hour comparison.
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