WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[Bran Blackbyrd]

A certain level of civilization?
Trade caravan. There's your level of civilization. Use magic to make the carts float. What's the next logical step? Put covers over the carts or possibly armor it against attacks. What does that give you?
That's right, exactly what we saw in that picture that everyone says is a "train". (btw Dismas, Right on!)
It's all the smooth chocolatey taste of a seige cart combined with the peanut-buttery goodness of a merchant's supply wagons, now with the piquant seasoning of levitation magic.

If you can't summon up enough imagination to explain why something train-like is hovering around in a high-magic medieval fantasy world, then maybe chess is more your speed.
The last time I checked, people who played RPGs had a little bit more imagination.
This speculation is worse than useless and it looks totally infantile to the average on-looker. THIS is why geeks get such a bad rap for being so fanatical about stuff so trivial. It's a game for flumph's sake! One that has had less than 500 words of description released on it from a (at the very least) tertiary source. It won't be out for at least a year!
If you want to fight tooth and nail go into politics and get something important accomplished with all of that bile.

 

[Dismas]

For all those that claim that the setting isn't what WotC asked for and those suggesting the possibility of lawsuits, I was able to find a copy of the setting search document, here is what WotC asked for:

PROPOSALS FOR A NEW FANTASY SETTING

Wizards of the Coast, Inc. is searching for proposals for a new fantasy setting (“Fantasy Setting Search”). Such a setting may serve as a vehicle for novels, roleplaying games, card games, miniatures, and other entertainment products. In scope and flavor, your proposed fantasy setting should be similar to our existing settings, particularly FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE.

All they were looking for was a setting which they could exploit over numerous media.

Interestingly the only place I could find a copy of the search doc was on rpg.net (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php...page=20&highlight=setting search&pagenumber=2)

 

[Desdichado]

Leming: Rather than repeat the numerous arguments made since my last post, I will simply state that your claims are more vacous than ever. Empty. Devoid of meaning, substance or relevancy. I never misunderstood your point, as you seem to think, I just find it pedantic and infantile.

If you want to ignore the stream of posts here and continue to make silly claims about WotC "lying" about the tech level, feel free. Me, I'm going to feel free to know beyond any doubt that you have no idea what you're talking about. As near as I can tell, you're only hung up on a couple of words used second hand to describe the setting by people who also don't know much of anything about it, but who made some very superficial (and probably bad, since they directly contradict stuff that was said clearly in the presentation) judgement calls.

But, like I said, you wanna pursue that, go ahead. But it's clearly an insubstantial train of thought. Pun intended.

 

[drnuncheon]

The original post claimed that the setting had tech that was no higher than the mediaeval period. It has trains, which weren't around in that period. Therefore, they're talking crap.

Now, what's so hard to understand there?

Just out of curiosity, NickTheLemming, could you list for us the reasons why trains absolutely could not be medieval technology? I have a suspicion that most or all of them will not apply to the trains in this setting.

If they are powered by magic, then they don't need steam engines and the necessary post-medieval technology to build them.

If they are levitating by magic, then they don't need rails and the necessary large-scale steel refining and manufacturing processes to create them.

With those two factors gone, the only thing preventing one from making a train is, well...there isn't one, really. Besides those two things, a train is basically just a bunch of wagons hooked together. And wagons are certainly medieval technology. The reason people didn't usually hook multiple wagons together is that they didn't have any reason to - it was easier just to hook the extra horses directly to the second wagon. If you have an 'engine' (a word used by Shakespeare, I will note) that has the excess power to pull multiple wagons, on the other hand...

Is it the name 'train' (even though that also is a perfectly fine medieval word?) Would you be happier if they called it a 'lightning caravan' instead?

J

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Count me (proudly) amongst the Whiners!

I never said this setting will suck. I'd say it actually looks kinda neat, if appearing to owe a lot to sources mentioned previously.

My problem, and the reason I am unfortunately prejudiced against this book, is that as a Setting Search entrant, I was told in the submission requirements, as well as several times by WotC employees via forums, that they were looking for some flavor of medieval fantasy. I worked very hard to stay within those strict parameters, all the while thinking to myself, "Why does WotC want YET another medieval fantasy setting?". But I pressed ahead, and turned in something that appeared to be a standard-issue fantasy world, but had what I felt were some interesting things going on under the surface. DMs could have a field day with the premise, but to the PCs it would appear to be "just another fantasy world". I didn't like the stringent limits the submission guidelines put on my writing, but I found my way of having my cake and eating it too.

Well, it turns out that they didn't want another medieval fantasy setting after all. It turns out they wanted flying ships, vast cities, hovertrains, and dino-riders. That's their right to publish whatever they want, but it leaves a very sour taste in my mouth that they didn't just open up the submission parameters to include things like that. By their very admission, this setting was nothing like the other 11,000 entries. Did this Baker guy know something the other 11,000 of us didn't know? Did he find the magic internet chat forum where whoever was in charge of this Setting Search debacle said "Nothing screams 'medieval' to me like flying trains" and ran with it?

I hope this doesn't come across as sour grapes. I'm sure this is going to be very well done. Having seen some of Morningstar, I know that there were losing entries better than mine, so Mr. Baker gets the benefit of the doubt. I'm P.O.'d at WotC for misrepresenting themselves.

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

i have to agree with Nick here. it doesn't matter whether the train runs by a technological steam engine or if it draws energy from a bound fire elemental. it's still a train.

trains imply a certain level of organization and civilization that (for the most part) exceeds the standard pseudo-medieval / feudal mindset that pervades core D&D.

Considering a simple cure light wounds, let alone fireball, flying monsters and expensive (but safe) resurrection also reduces the pseudo-medieval reality of D&D to pure ridicule I think trains fit in nicely.

Cure light wounds - proof of the existance of divinity, no medicine, no atheism

Fireball - the gunpowder of the D&D, vast reduction in the need for mass armies of poorly trained soldiers.

Flying monsters - throw out all architecture based on two-dimensional conflict. Castles cease to exist.

Resurrection - complete break down of feudal inheritance, and therfore feudal society

And last but not least: the existance of freelancing PC heroes who, within a year of wandering about, have enough money and magical might to destroy large sections of the aristocracy, instant creation of the middle class which destroys the fabric of medieval life.

- Ma'at

 

[Maggan]

Comments from Keith Baker

At the end of the comments at Gaming Report, Keith Baker makes some comments of his own:

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=9464&mode=thread&order=0

It's the one titled "Jump to conclusions much?"

The hilarious bit is that there are people accusing him and Rich Baker being relatives, and that that is the reason this setting won!

Or is it hilarious? On second thoughts, it's kinda sad.

If Keith Baker is reading this, I want to just say that I think it sounds interesting and that I will look at it before I make my purchasing decision.

Cheers!

M.

 

[Aeolius]

trains imply a certain level of organization and civilization that (for the most part) exceeds the standard pseudo-medieval / feudal mindset that pervades core D&D.

And a gnome submersible powered by a captured water elemental would be what, then?

Me, I'm sticking with Greyhawk. 'Nuf said.

 

[Desdichado]

Re: Count me (proudly) amongst the Whiners!

I'm P.O.'d at WotC for misrepresenting themselves.

They didn't misrepresent themselves. You simply didn't understand what they were looking for. I don't find this setting at all incompatible with what they asked for, and I was hanging on their every word about what they wanted, having submitted three entries myself.

 

[Dismas]

Re: Count me (proudly) amongst the Whiners!

My problem, and the reason I am unfortunately prejudiced against this book, is that as a Setting Search entrant, I was told in the submission requirements, well as several times by WotC employees via forums, that they were looking for some flavor of medieval fantasy.

The submission requirements, which I have posted early in this thread and is the official invitation, just mentions a fantasy setting, nothing about medieval, anything else mentioned should have been taken a hersay. Still they say that hindsight is 20/20.