WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[ThirdWizard]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clark

But I suppose the opposite is true. Any magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology. I can see where some people are coming from. Personally, I don't like technology in my games, and whether a train is powered by magic or powered by steam makes little difference to me. I don't know, whenever a friend of mine tells me about his Sunday night games where his gnome bought himself a flying car, I can't help but groan and tell him I don't really want to hear about it.

I know there's a market for this. I know several people who might start playing D&D to play this setting, and I like that. I hope it brings people to D&D who previously didn't play, because I think D&D has grown into a very good game that many people sell short because of previous incarnations (read 2nd edition).

I have to say that its good that this setting isn't some cookie cutter of a previously released campaign setting, because it might open the doors to other settings that I will be more interested in if it does well. So good luck to WotC in thier endevours.

 

[Maggan]

Trains, planes and automobiles

I saw it. So what would you need a train for then? Necessity is the mother of invention. Zappa, too.

Well, maybe the lightning rail is cheaper? More reliable but only able to fly six feet off the ground? Or belongs to a culture without access to the flying freighters? Or ancient artefacts that have been made obsolete by the flying freighters, but since the freighters were invented just a year ago, most people haven't been able to upgrade yet?

We have trains, planes and automobiles in our world, why shouldn't a fantasy world be able to contain the concept of lightning rails and flying freighters at the same time? It's not as if one idea excludes the other.

For me, it's gonna be hard to shake of the Dinotopia meets Falkensteing image, at least until I get more info than what's currently available.

Cheers!

M.

 

[Gargoyle]

I asked Bill Slaviscek two questions before the D&D Q&A today about Ebberon...I'm paraphrasing his answers:

Q: Do the dinosaurs play a significant role?

A: They have their place, but they're not every place.

Q: Is this setting steampunk...and what do you consider steampunk anyway?

A: No it's not. Steampunk involves mechnical technology, and Eberron is a magical world with medieval technology.

So maybe that helps clear things up a little, maybe not. WOTC was smart enough not to do a real Q&A on Eberron today; James Wyatt commented that they can't answer our questions anyway so there wasn't much point. This was a smart move, IMO, compared to yesterday: If it's a secret, don't talk about it.

The other thing I remember from yesterday's seminar is that James Wyatt mentioned that there is a pantheon of deities, but there isn't as much divine intervention as in some worlds like the Forgotten Realms.

Additionally I remember a comment about an effort to make the world so that there are lots of stories going on, and so that the world is not dominated by central campaign events. So there will be lots of things going on in different parts of the world, like in the Forgotten Realms ("there are a thousand stories in the naked city"), rather than one or two really big campaign events like with the various cataclysms and wars in Dragonlance.

They also plan on a line of novels that will come out shortly after the campaign. I noticed an "Eberron novel outline" document on Bill S.'s hard drive....

I got the feeling that they are making an effort to keep the novels from causing upheavals in the campaign setting, but I can't remember a specific comment on that.

That's probably all I can remember on Eberron from the couple of seminars I went to, sorry if I forgot anything or wasn't clear on something. (runs off to play games and eat...)

 

[drnuncheon]

Given that scale, that train appears to be 5-6 feet off the ground. Seems like that'd be enough of a clearance for your average holstein, and anyway you wouldn't want that nasty-looking cowcatcher hitting old Bessie mid-section, would you? That'd be a b***h to clean off.

Maybe it's for something bigger than a cow (a dinosaur catcher?). Maybe the cows fly. Maybe the train is only 8 ft tall and hovers 2 ft off the ground. Maybe it's a toy train. Maybe it's made of Nerf (tm). Maybe they really hate cows. Maybe it's necessary to collect the harmonic radiance of the ley line that the train travels on (via 'pyramid power') to power the rest of the train. Maybe it's an airfoil to keep the front of the train from rising too high and 'derailing'. Maybe it's a dueling weapon. Maybe it roasts marshmallows. Maybe the same guy who did the 'leather and spike' fetish gear for 3e got to the trains of Eberron too. Maybe the artist tried it without the cowcatcher and it looked even more modern and they decided that people would complain about it not only being a train but being a modern train.

(BTW, going over the picture again - if you're listening, NickTheLemming - I don't see the word "train". Above the 'train' it says 'Booked passage through Wraxat and <unreadable> on the Lightning Rail.' The caption to the left is talking about hairstyles and has nothing to do with the 'train'.)

I saw it. So what would you need a train for then? Necessity is the mother of invention. Zappa, too.

Yeah, why would any society have both air travel and land travel? That's stupid, completely unbelievable, and utterly unrealistic. WOTC should be dragged out behind the building and shot for making such a DUMB decision.

J

 

[s/LaSH]

Y'know, I've been playing in a rather unusual D&D world recently...

Gunpowder has been known for a thousand years. One theocratic empire uses blades with molecule-thin edges in its quest for world domination. There's a mechanical timepiece eight stories tall, with little mechanical men who come out every hour and announce the time. Atomic theory is old news. Heck, at one point a wise man built energy weapons to defend a city, but they didn't catch on for some reason. Way further out than Eberron, isn't it?

It's twelfth-century Europe.

(Actual sources: China. Aztec obsidian blades. China again (centuries beforehand, too). The rest is Greece (before even gunpowder, I think).)

The Incas didn't need steam engines (heck, they didn't even need the wheel!) to create a highly logistical empire of awesome size, at the exact same time that D&D is supposedly set in. Llama trains aren't exactly the same thing, but give the Inca decent technology (metallurgy and the wheel) and guess what they'd do with it? Technology and culture doesn't have to follow the Western European path, folks.

Eberron looks pretty cool to me, although I'll reserve judgement until I see more. I suspect there may be ideas to mine...

Does that flying ship have guns, or are they just structural supports like you'd see on any late Dark Age woodwork?

One final note: Wasn't this setting homebrewed fifteen years ago? (Please don't quote me on that, I don't know where I read it.) Maybe it's been retooled to seem more cohesive, I don't know. But I'm going to bet that this is pretty cool, rather than "OMG R0bit dinasaurs roxxorz!!1"

 

[Gargoyle]

One final note: Wasn't this setting homebrewed fifteen years ago? (Please don't quote me on that, I don't know where I read it.) Maybe it's been retooled to seem more cohesive, I don't know. But I'm going to bet that this is pretty cool, rather than "OMG R0bit dinasaurs roxxorz!!1"

According to Keith Baker, it was not a campaign setting he had been running, but was designed specifically for the setting search. He did draw on elements from several campaign settings he had run in the past for inspiration.

 

[rounser]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clark

But I suppose the opposite is true. Any magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology. I can see where some people are coming from. Personally, I don't like technology in my games, and whether a train is powered by magic or powered by steam makes little difference to me.

Exactly. In fact, technology which is driven by magical forces rather than mechanical forces is even cheesier. If you must have a train in swords & sorcery fantasy, make it a steam powered one - there's less cheese and suspension of disbelief issues.

"I'm off to meet the dinoriders!"
"How you gonna get there?"
"I'm gonna ride the magic train!"

It also opens the door to questions as to why they don't use magic to do this and this and this as well (magical space shuttles, magical a-bombs, magical toasters and computers), and then suspension of disbelief tumbles when the reason is that they don't - just because. In other words, open that can of worms and all sorts of questions need answering.

But then again, context is important. We don't know if the magical fueled tech goes any further than trains, or a single nation or culture as is the case with the dinos, which might be forgivable....we'll see.

 

[The It's Man]

Blimey, just the setting I needed to use this lines...

Tony: Where's Daddy?
he notices the stiff Oh! Has he been...?
All: Yes, after breakfast!
Tony: Then he....won't be needing his seat reservation on the 10:15?
John: Exactly!
Tony: As, I suppose, as his eldest son, it must go to me...
Davis: Just a minute, Tony. There's a small matter of... murder!
Tony: Oh but surely he just shot himself and then hid the gun!
L.P.: How could anyone shoot himself and then hide the gun without first cancelling his reservation?
Tony: Well, I must dash, or I'll be late for the 10:15!
Davis: I suggest you murdered your father for his seat reservation!
Tony: I may have had the motive, Inspector, but I could not have done it. For I have just arrived from Gillingham on the 8:13, and here is my restaurant car ticket to prove it!
Woman: But the 8:13 doesn't *have* a restaurant car!
John: It's a standing buffet only!
Tony: Did I say the 8:13?--I meant the 7:58 Stopping Train.
L.P.: But the 7:58 arrived at Swindon at 8:19 owing to annual points maintainance at...Winsborough Junction!
John: So how did you make the connection with the 8:13 which left 6 minutes earlier?
Tony: Simple, I caught the 7:16 Forworth Special, arriving at Swindon at 8:09.
Woman: But the 7:16 only stops at Swindon on alternate Thursdays!
L.P.: SURELY you mean the Holiday-Maker Special!
Tony: Oh yes!, how daft of me!, of course, I came on the Holiday-Maker Special, calling at Bedforth, Comer, Bendetton, Sutton, Wallingham and Gillingham.
Davis: THAT'S Sundays Only!


Tony: DAMN!--Alright!, I confess. I did it, I killed him for his reservation! But you won't take me alive!!!! I'm going to throw myself on the 10:12 from Reading!
John: Don't be a fool, Tony! Don't do it!...the 10:12 has the new narrow- traction bogeys!, you wouldn't stand a chance!
Tony: Exactly!

 

[jasamcarl]

Exactly. In fact, technology which is driven by magical forces rather than mechanical forces is even cheesier. If you must have a train in swords & sorcery fantasy, make it a steam powered one - there's less cheese and suspension of disbelief issues.

"I'm off to meet the dinoriders!"
"How you gonna get there?"
"I'm gonna ride the magic train!"

It also opens the door to questions as to why they don't use magic to do this and this and this as well (magical space shuttles, magical a-bombs, magical toasters and computers), and then suspension of disbelief tumbles when the reason is that they don't - just because. In other words, open that can of worms and all sorts of questions need answering.

But then again, context is important. We don't know if the magical fueled tech goes any further than trains, or a single nation or culture as is the case with the dinos, which might be forgivable....we'll see.

Of course, I could ask why, given the magic available in DND now, I can't do this and this and this. Whey are farms not irrigated by portals from the elemental plane of water? In fact, why is magic not being used as tech? The answer? A fantastical history simply says its not so. Face it, suspencion of disbelief is not the cornerstone for the Fantasy genre or DnD in particular. The appeal comes from evoking images in interesting way, not stringing them together in some dry, rule-based, reductionist attempt at 'reason'. Its a postmodern genre, get over it!!

 

[rounser]

Of course, I could ask why, given the magic available in DND now, I can't do this and this and this. Whey are farms not irrigated by portals from the elemental plane of water? In fact, why is magic not being used as tech? The answer? A fantastical history simply says its not so. Face it, suspencion of disbelief is not the cornerstone for the Fantasy genre or DnD in particular.

Actually, I was thinking along those very lines when I wrote that. The difference is that a magical train or magical gun doesn't automatically follow the genre idioms of sword & sorcery fantasy, whereas a flying carpet or magical sword does. We're willing to accept that wizards don't revolutionise agriculture in a faux-medieval S&S fantasy world for the same reason that we're willing to accept that James Bond's gadgets always suit the situations he's going to get into perfectly - it doesn't make sense, but it's in-genre, and therefore acceptable in terms of suspending disbelief if we understand that genre.

A flying carpet, with it's associations to magic and mythological basis, is accepted as genre correct material, if borrowing from Arabian Nights to a large degree. Magical trains cannot draw on any such mythological resonance to counteract the technological anachronisms they suggest, and therefore challenge suspension of disbelief under the expectations and norms associated with swords & sorcery fantasy unless the context is clever enough to dictate otherwise. It could well be - we haven't seen said context.