WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[Monte At Home]

Wow. That's a lot of discussion over a few pictures and phrases.

Personally, I liked what I saw. I was surprised by it, because it had seemed clear to me that the judges at WotC accepted what the contest designers (who were not all the same people) had made it clear that they did not want.

Nevertheless, I thought it seemed cool. There was clearly a lot going on, and was very different from what WotC (and TSR) have done before. It gave me the impression that there was a lot more going on behind the scenes NOT revealed yet. I'm intrigued, and would like to see more.

It'll probably be too different to be the new Forgotten Realms, but it certainly could be the new Dark Sun--and that's no mean feat.

 

[woodelf]

I find it very hard to imagine tht after all that fuss it would be poor, and in fairness the writer must be good. (one would hope)

There are those of us that think that Forgotten Realms is somewhere between "eh" and "this sucks", and are thoroughly underwhelmed by Greenwood's writing (his were just about the only articles in Dragon that i routinely skipped, or started to read and then gave up on, when i read Dragon).

Not saying i'm right (about FR), just pointing out that, to me, the concept of the new WotC D&D setting being bleah, or the writer being uninspiring, is no big stretch.

 

[drnuncheon]

As to casting for pay. That's for the apprentices.

Why would that be? I'm thinking of worlds like Lawrence Watt-Evans' Ethshar, where consulting mages of all sorts build their business on casting spells for other people. It's certainly not all relegated to apprentices there. Or a seer, who uses their divination ability for pay. Maybe a magical construction company: "Need a castle and it absolutely, positively has to be up overnight?" Or a messenger service, or...well, you get the idea, and a lot of those spells are going to be far beyond apprentice level. So I would think that a mage could make a very comfortable living for himself without dropping the XP on casting, and in fact (if he had the right spells and clientele) could make more money than a crafter, which would lead to the crafter being less willing to fork over the XP for crafting (thus slowing his development) if he could get the money another way, which was (IIRC) the original point from way back when.

Sure, you could take the XP out of the crafting, but I'm more discussing the implications of the D&D magic system than trying to change it for a particular result.

J

 

[Desdichado]

Oh, and just to go on the record -- since it was pointed out that I didn't directly *deny* it in my previous statement -- I am in no way related to Richard Baker. I simply took the family name when he adopted me. (Note to conspiracy nuts: also a joke)

Yes, yes, but how closely related are you to Kevin Bacon, we'd all like to know?

 

[mythusmage]

Why would that be? I'm thinking of worlds like Lawrence Watt-Evans' Ethshar, where consulting mages of all sorts build their business on casting spells for other people.

J

Small magics, son. Small magics.

You know, zero and first level spells. The sort of thing an apprentice masters before going on to the hard stuff. Of course the master is going to be casting the dangerous dweomers.

Of course master and apprentices wouldn't be the only viable business plan. I can see consulting wizards, industrial wizards, even advisor to the king wizards (the old vizier, from whence wizard came). After all, not all detectives are consulting detectives.

In my considered opinion, D&D has become a poor table top imitation of a bad video game. Reward inflation, gamist thought, stuff like that there. When it could be so much more if those elements from story, theater, and real life also found therein were promoted alongside the game elements..

Wizards concentrated on rewarding people for playing the game, when they should've gone out to reward people for taking part in the overall experience. Of which game play is but a part.

I could say tons more on the subject, but this really aint the place for it.

To make this short, anything that gets people to think of an RPG as a place where people live and have adventures, social encounters, and stuff like that there is good in my eyes.

A +8 sword is a poor substitute for a rousing session.

 

[woodelf]

Doesn't the article quite clearly say this is not steampunk? Magical Industry is not steampunk. Lots of typical and frankly fairly pathetic knee-jerk reactions on this thread; latching onto words that don't even seem to describe the setting, and denouncing the setting because of it.

Well, first, "steampunk" is a near-meaningless term. Or, more precisely, it has a plethora of meanings, depending on who you talk to. Second, if someone were to say "this is nothing like traditional D&D fantasy. it has dragons and powerful magic, and features dwarves and elves and orcs prominently", would you accept the first part of their statement as being true? Someone can say "this isn't steampunk", but if what they describe is what you consider steampunk, then it is, their claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[woodelf]

My opinion is that WOTC shouldn't have unveiled the setting until they had more information that they could release. This is a very large campaign world in its infancy. Why have a Q&A seminar when you can't answer most of the questions?

So you can gauge customer response? Maybe, more than being a chance for the fans to find out abou the setting, this was a chance for WotC to find out what the fans liked/disliked. After all, it should still be fairly early in the development cycle--easy to change emphasis at this point (such as how much they talk about the dinosaurs, or how much page count they spend on magitech feats).

 

[Desdichado]

Well, first, "steampunk" is a near-meaningless term. Or, more precisely, it has a plethora of meanings, depending on who you talk to. Second, if someone were to say "this is nothing like traditional D&D fantasy. it has dragons and powerful magic, and features dwarves and elves and orcs prominently", would you accept the first part of their statement as being true? Someone can say "this isn't steampunk", but if what they describe is what you consider steampunk, then it is, their claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

Steampunk is only near meaningless if you talk to people who don't understand the genre and lump anything "steamy" into it. It's got a clear set of genre conventions, it's just that not many folks who use the term are necessarily familiar with them. But that's beside the point. Nothing about the setting as described so far fits anyone's definition of steampunk.

As to your second question, clearly a setting could be "nothing like traditional D&D fantasy" and yet feature "dragons and powerful magic, and feature dwarves and elves and orcs prominantly." Dark Sun was essentially that setting already.

But I still fail to see how that's relevant, as there's nothing even remotely like any definition of steampunk that's been revealed as yet. This brouhaha about the "train" seems completely misplaced and willfully ignorant, based on comments we've got from people who were actually at the presentation and know what was actually said as opposed to people who looked at a little picture and immediately jumped to insupportable conclusions.

 

[KeithBaker]

Perhaps it might be possible by stating what it is not. For example, it is probably NOT a Land of the Lost ripoff and will not come with any music from either the 1970s series or the more recent one. (See my previous post.)

It's not Land of the Lost or Dinotopia. It's not Iron Kingdoms or Shadowrun. It's not... hmmm... BESM or Nobilis. Though you probably could have guessed the last two.

Also, can you comment on what it is like to work with a company like WotC on a product like Eberron? A lot of people might be interested into what insights you can provide on what happens from the development of an idea to the finished product stage.

When I was selected as one of the final three, they brought me out to Seattle and told me what they liked and didn't like about the setting -- as I've said before, there were some things about it that even *I* knew were too bizarre (I should note that this was something they did for all three of the finalists). The 125 page document was designed as a story bible as opposed to a rule book, and discussed races, cultures, countries, history, and the theory of the world.

Once it made the final cut I began talking directly with Bill Slavicsek, James Wyatt, and Christopher Perkins. There was a lot of discussion about how to adapt certain features of the world to D&D mechanics. A few things were toned down or removed; among other things, the world was just too darned big. I certainly believe that two heads are better than one (of course, I'm an ettin) and a lot of excellent ideas came out of these group discussions. Having paid the big bucks, WotC now owns the idea. But so far it's been a team effort and there hasn't been any sort of iron fist at work. We're all really excited about it, and if we occasionally disagree it's usually because we need to choose between two interesting ideas.

The important thing all along has been to find ways to work together. When WotC has felt the need to change something I like, I've always been able to help come up with something that I believe is as good or better than the original, instead of just sulking about it and ending up with something I hate. I may not have full control at this point, but I've never been shut out of a conversation or decision process. Anyhow, hopefully this addresses the question...

-Keith

 

[woodelf]

I think the setting may suffer from being too different, too 'out there' to attract a strong fan base.

Which I believe will work against it, not for it. The setting seems to its trying to be too different. Unless is absolutely brilliant, the FR, Scarred Lands, Midnight, Greyhawk, etc players are going to stay with their settings or will venture into other settings with familar themes and feels to them.

Even if the setting is well done, it may be that fans wanting more 'familiar' ground will not like it.

Why are fans wanting more familiar ground looking at a new setting? If you're satisfied with FR, Greyhawk, and/or Kalamar; or Midnight, Scarred Lands, Dragonlance, and/or Iron Kingdoms, why are you looking at now settings? I think going for something different is a very smart move. D&D is in desperate need of some more variety in settings--Midnight is about as "out there" as it gets right now, except for Dragonstar. Just how many variations on the basic theme do we need?

Exactly. With this sort of setting, the execution is what is important. Anyone could throw together magical tech and dinosaurs and create a mediocre derivative setting, but from the praise we've heard from the judges, this setting is much more than that.

What I like about the setting is that it isn't yet another pseudo-medieval fantasy heroic-quest world. There isn't an existing D&D setting that does swashbuckling well, nor is there one with interesting extensions of magic.

I'm with you on the different-ness of the setting being good. However, in response to your and others' comments that "it must be good, why else would they have chosen it?", let me just say: Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, SpellJammer, Ravenloft, Council of Wyrms, Netheril, Dark Sun, Planescape, Birthright. For probably any person, there's at least one in there that falls into the personal "what were they *thinking*?" category. I don't know exactly who the judges are, but if they're the same people who think that FR is a really cool setting, or thought the Book of Vile Darkness was awesome, i don't have much hope.

Mind you, i'm fully aware that my tastes don't match the mainstream customer base. I think that FR is one of the lamest, least-interesting fantasy settings ever published, for D&D or otherwise; can't stand Planescape; never got into Dark Sun or Ravenloft; think that Dragonlance is incurably silly; and love SpellJammer. IOW, from everything i've heard, my tastes are almost exactly inverse to actual sales of the various settings. My point is not that i am right and everyone else is wrong. Rather, it's that they're already catering to the mainstream taste, and maybe exactly what they need is a setting a bit more "out there". I just hope it's also cool, and internally consistent ot a reasonable degree.

Oh, and if i never see another drow for as long as i game, it will be too soon. I never thought they were interesting or cool, and they've only gotten worse by overstaying their welcome.