D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[Remathilis]

You aren't understanding. We are human. We can ONLY think as a human does. We can pretend that we know how a dragon man would think and act, but we can only do so as a human thinks, not as a dragon man thinks. Therefore, all such pretenses are essentially playing dragon men, elves, cat people, etc. as humans. Weird humans, but still humans.

Ultimately this is always the problem with "race as hat" argument. What else can they be? They are made and played by humans. I don't think players would want to even try to play a mind that isn't somewhat identifiable, like a species that cannot feel empathy or a species who see the world only in inverted colors.

 

[Epic Meepo]

What rule says the 5e rules for races don't apply? Simply making a new stat block for 5.5e doesn't contradict the 5e rules that if I make an elf bandit, it gets elf abilities, unlike a human bandit. Only specifically new rules change the old ones.

The rule you quoted upthread says the 2014 rules for races don't apply to Bandits. "...versions of things in this book replace versions from older books." The new version of the Bandit replaces the older version of the Bandit.

More importantly for the point I was making about Dragonborn NPCs without breath weapons, the topic of this thread says the 2014 rules for races don't apply. This thread is about WotC making a setting designed with the 2024 rules in mind. A setting which references rules which only appear in 2014 rulebooks isn't really doing that (even in cases where the 2014 rules happen to be better than the 2024 rules).

 

[Maxperson]

The rule you quoted upthread says the 2014 rules for races don't apply to Bandits. "...versions of things in this book replace versions from older books." The new version of the Bandit replaces the older version of the Bandit.

No rule replaced that rule. A statblock is not a rule. Things in the stat block are rules and no rule replaces the one from 5e. There is no new version of the rule that races get their abilities

The 5e rule from PHB Page 177 is...

"The peoples of the D&D multiverse hail from different worlds and include many kinds of sapient life forms. A player character's species is the set of game traits that an adventurer gains from being one of those life forms."

You explicitly get your traits from the general racial traits, not as something different from them only for PCs. . There is no rule anywhere in 5.5e that says that races are different for PCs than NPCs, so there's no reason to think that they are.

More importantly for the point I was making about Dragonborn NPCs without breath weapons, the topic of this thread says the 2014 rules for races don't apply. This thread is about WotC making a setting designed with the 2024 rules in mind. A setting which references rules which only appear in 2014 rulebooks isn't really doing that (even in cases where the 2014 rules happen to be better than the 2024 rules).

I suppose if you want a 5.5e setting that changes Dragonborn to remove breath weapons, it can be made, but that change would not be specific for a 5.5e setting. And the thread is about things that are specific for 5.5e, not changes to it like removing Dragonborn breath weapons.

 

[Minigiant]

@Maxperson was replying to a comment you said earlier about how some of us are role-playing a Dragonborn like we would a human, out of ease and ignorance. Your post here appears to be in response to a mini debate between him and @Epic Meepo. Two completely different things.

No.

You all are going on tangents from my original statements that a Dragonborn can be roleplayed as the PC version with dragonic breath weapon and resistance and one of the NPC version where it is a scaly human. One being easy the other being harder.

But my discussion is about the mechanics.

Not having Dragonborn get a breath weapon is easy
It's not as interesting.

Removing or devaluing dragonborn breath weapon, elf or tiefling spells, Goliath heritage, or halfling lunch to make the setting run smooth is a lame excuse IMHO.

 

[Maxperson]

No.

You all are going on tangents from my original statements that a Dragonborn can be roleplayed as the PC version with dragonic breath weapon and resistance and one of the NPC version where it is a scaly human. One being easy the other being harder.

But my discussion is about the mechanics.

Not having Dragonborn get a breath weapon is easy
It's not as interesting.

Removing or devaluing dragonborn breath weapon, elf or tiefling spells, Goliath heritage, or halfling lunch to make the setting run smooth is a lame excuse IMHO.

Not having a breath weapon is not backed up by 5.5e anywhere. Having one IS backed up by the 5.5e PHB which states that the traits a PC gets is from the race. They are not something special for the PC only.

 

[Minigiant]

Not having a breath weapon is not backed up by 5.5e anywhere. Having one IS backed up by the 5.5e PHB which states that the traits a PC gets is from the race. They are not something special for the PC only.

I agree.

Stripping dragonborn of their breath weapon so they would be identical to humans is not 5.5e

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I agree.

Stripping dragonborn of their breath weapon so they would be identical to humans is not 5.5e

No, keeping their numbers very low so they don’t rule the world with their breath weapon infantry is.

 

[Minigiant]

No, keeping their numbers very low so they don’t rule the world with their breath weapon infantry is.

Why would they rule?

All the PHB species are balanced on a macro level.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Ultimately this is always the problem with "race as hat" argument. What else can they be? They are made and played by humans. I don't think players would want to even try to play a mind that isn't somewhat identifiable, like a species that cannot feel empathy or a species who see the world only in inverted colors.

is there really not a middle ground for species having their own distinctions between 'superficial aesthetic differences' and 'alien unknowable experience'?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Why would they rule?

All the PHB species are balanced on a macro level.

Wut!? Not even PC species are well balanced. They certainly ain’t balanced for NPCs. I’m pretty sure AoE breath weapons that do more than enough damage to kill several enemy troops at once even if they are save beat a unit of dwarves with an extra hp apiece and the ability to sense tremors.

I believe if you use CR calculations using the guidance in the 2014 DMG giving the basic warrior Dragonborn breath weapon pushes its CR up from 1/4 to over 1. This does not happen for other species abilities.