D&D 5E (2024) WotC Should Make 5.5E Specific Setting

[Paul Farquhar]

It is important to me

I’m not disputing that. That’s why D&D has multiple settings and supports homebrew. So you can build a setting around the things that are important to you.

My point is, it’s not required, or even implied, by the rules, and it is directly contrary to “the vibe” of the current edition.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Introducing the Abeiran Dragonborn to the Forgotten Realms IMO was easy because they were relative newcomers to the setting. They had no major impact on the lore and history that had existed in every edition version of the FR prior to their appearance in 4e. However, the introduction of the Torilian Dragonborn in 5.5e throws something of a spanner into the works because we really don't know how they contributed to the existing lore and history of the setting from those past editions.

Crashing a nation into a setting is pretty disruptive, and I can see why many long-term Forgotton Realms fans didn't like it.
But it has the advantage that the nation itself still has a history and culture, and you now have an entirely new group of people into the setting, that had their old ways and for which the established world is the new ways, where as for the pre-existing inhabitants, it's the other way around. That definitely defines a place for them in the setting, including some interesting dynamics based on that they are new arrivals. This creates many hooks, because you aren't just making up everything about the Dragonborn - they're the Dragonborn from an existing nation, they had a way of how they worked. They might be a bit of the odd man out when they leave their nation and explore Toreil - but they aren't the only ones, there are other Dragonborn in a similar situation, and there is still a definable culture with organizations, traditions and so on that you can base your character on, giving you some material to work with.

 

[Maxperson]

There is nothing built into 5.5 that is anything specific. Quite deliberately so.

Almost. I was thinking about it last night and there are still the named spells. Those are technically Greyhawk specific, since they name Greyhawk wizards. Mordenkainen, Leomund, Otto, etc. Not that those are enough to make the core rules Greyhawk, but the core isn't 100% setting free.

 

[Maxperson]

Why do you think it's required that the nations need to only make sense for a 5E setting? You seem to be misunderstanding the goals. The goal is that each of these nations holds a place for the core races of the 5E setting. A 4E could for examle include Goliaths, but they aren't a PHB 1 species, so it would also be okay if they are missing. But a 5E setting needs a place for the Goliaths, because they are a core species in 5E.

There are already settings where they have a place. The Forgotten Realms has a place for Goliaths and Dragonborn.

The argument being put forth is that there isn't a setting that does this, so 5e needs a setting built specifically for 5e. It doesn't. The Realms already does it. Greyhawk is so sparse lore wise that these races could be inserted by the DM practically anywhere. Eberron, Spelljammer, Wildemount/tal'dorei and Planescape are similarly kitchen sink settings. There are at least six official settings currently out there where every race dwells. We don't need a seventh created for that purpose.

I'm not against a new setting, but I am against yet another kitchen sink being built. Make it interesting with limitations and special rules, not another of what we have in abundance.

And the same will apply to the classes - there needs to be patron entities that could work for the Warlock's pacts. If some Fighters can become Eldritch Knights, there might be some places where they are mentioned, maybe a military academy that has a teacher for combat magic, or a mercenary unit known for being lead by an Eldritch Knight.

There should be material that references this to provide guidelines and inspirations, pointers if you were to create your own core rule character on where they might fit in the setting (and also where or how they might feel unusual, if you wish to go against the grain).

Why does everything need to be spelled out like players and DMs are children? Why can't it just be assumed that if there are Eldritch Knights, those knights learn somewhere and if it's necessary to figure it out, that the DMs and players are capable enough to easily do so? With literally a second of thought, I just came up with two Eldritch Knight academies, put them in Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep, and made them rivals.

 

[Maxperson]

If I design a superhero setting, I would at least add a new class that uses magic by means of simpler mechanics at the higher levels. I would probably switch every core caster class to spell points instead of slots.

Spell points is the more complex system, not the simpler one.

 

[Corinnguard]

Crashing a nation into a setting is pretty disruptive, and I can see why many long-term Forgotton Realms fans didn't like it.

I've ran into at least one other poster on another thread who didn't like how the Dragonborn were brought into the Forgotten Realms due to the Spellplague. Otoh, I liked how they were brought into the Forgotten Realms this way and set up their own nation of Tymanther.

But it has the advantage that the nation itself still has a history and culture, and you now have an entirely new group of people into the setting, that had their old ways and for which the established world is the new ways, where as for the pre-existing inhabitants, it's the other way around. That definitely defines a place for them in the setting, including some interesting dynamics based on that they are new arrivals. This creates many hooks, because you aren't just making up everything about the Dragonborn - they're the Dragonborn from an existing nation, they had a way of how they worked. They might be a bit of the odd man out when they leave their nation and explore Toreil - but they aren't the only ones, there are other Dragonborn in a similar situation, and there is still a definable culture with organizations, traditions and so on that you can base your character on, giving you some material to work with.

I agree. When I first began playing 5e over four years ago, I decided to play as a Dragonborn from Tymanther who left his home nation and later found himself at the gates of Baldur's Gate. I went to the Forgotten Realms Wiki to learn all I could about the 5e Dragonborn, and their home nation of Tymanther. I made my character a member of Clan Jalt and had him come from the frontier town of Ruinspoke. And lastly, I had him being a Lance Scout, a member of Tymanther's elite military, who are tasked to go beyond its' borders and explore the outside world.

He was also the only non-spellcaster in his party. The majority of the party was made up of arcane spellcasters.

 

[Maxperson]

What I am saying is if you are the IP holder of a game and you make another version of that game making significant changes to the mechanics and options of their game you should make at least one setting for that game with those options and mechanics were pondered while the setting was being crafted for sale.

When they make significant changes, they still won't need to create an entirely new setting around those changes, because settings are different from mechanics. However, 5.5e is not significantly different from 5e due to WotC's goal of compatibility.

 

[Maxperson]

5.5 isn't too different from 5e, but seeing as there was never a proper 5e setting made in the first place that's a bit of a moot point don't you think?

Maybe, but setting isn't tied to mechanics in the first place. Not even Eberron which was billed as built for 3e. There are only two settings I can think of where mechanics have been tied to setting. Dark Sun and Birthright, and you can use any edition for Birthright.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Spell points is the more complex system, not the simpler one.

perhaps the current spell point system is a bit complex, but i think if the game was designed to use them as the base it would be far simpler than slots currently are.

 

[Maxperson]

Practically every adventure ever published adds new monsters to the world. But no one worries about were they came from. They were always there, the world is vast and mysterious and full of stuff that people don’t know about.

This. None of those races needed to come from somewhere or "are here now." They just hadn't been described before.