WotC Spring 2009 Catalog

[Dinkeldog]

Let me make this clear. The 4E = MtG discussion is over.

 

[Mokona]

wizard, warlock, sorcerer, bard, and swordmage

By the time Arcane Power comes out we'll have a full set of arcane classes + 1: arcane defender (swordmage), arcane leader (bard), arcane striker (warlock), and TWO arcane controllers (wizards + sorcerer).

AND we still won't have a Martial Controller. The all martial game needs a controller long before arcane needs another controller besides the wizard.

 

[Darkwolf71]

By the time Arcane Power comes out we'll have a full set of arcane classes + 1: arcane defender (swordmage), arcane leader (bard), arcane striker (warlock), and TWO arcane controllers (wizards + sorcerer).

AND we still won't have a Martial Controller. The all martial game needs a controller long before arcane needs another controller besides the wizard.

You can not fill the role of a Controller with a Martial Character. They just don't work. Every example I have seen suggested either 1) was not truely a Martial character or 2) was not really a Controller.

 

[Ginnel]

Just a moment here.

The news page lists the swordmage as one of the PHB2 classes, but I don't see that mentioned in the catalog description. Do we know for a fact that the swordmage is going to be in the PHB2, or will it only be found in the FR Player's Guide?

Yup seems to me they got this wrong on the news item, as there doesn't seem to be any confirmation of it appearing in the PHB 2.

On the question about other power sources I lept to a conclusion on page 4 of this discussion which I've copied to below
[sblock=post from page 4]
It seems also they are only releasing them when the Power Source has reached its full complement of classes, 4 from what I can see. This would leave me to believe the Divine Power coming out in autumm(fall)/Winter next year and the Primal Power coming out in spring next year, with the PHB 3 which will contain the Shadow and Psionic and hmm another source, with 4 of one source and 2 each of the other two leading to a Power book of one of those sources in autumn that year.

So I see the release list a bit like this (in terms of PHB's and Power books):

2008 Summer: PHB
2008 Autumn/winter: Martial Power
2009 Spring: PHB 2
2009 Summer:Arcane Power
2009 Autumn/winter: Divine Power
2010 Spring: PHB 3 [for Psionic, Shadow and Ki? heroes]
2010 Summer: Primal Power
2011 Autumn/winter: [Something Power] the source which has 4 classes from PHB 3
2012 Spring: PHB4
2013 Summer: [Something Power] one of the 2 sources which has 2 classes from PHB 3 and 4
2014 Autumn: [Something Power] the remaining of the 2 sources which has 2 classes from PHB 3 and 4
[/sblock]

regarding the martial controller class, hmm if they can do one coolio but I'd rather they not force it.

 

[beepeearr]

Why can't you build a martial controller, I can think of a couple of routes.

Sniper = use ranged attacks, ranged interrupts and reactions, and fear to create zones.

Pole Arm Wielder = same as above only centered on the controller

Harrier = uses speed to create zones and area effect attacks, interrupts and reactions that allow him to move and attack when certain actions occur with a certain range. Basically character makes a close blast attack, which really consists of him flitting about smacking multiple foes, most powers should have an effect that requires him to end turn next to last opponent attacked

Saboteur = sets improvised traps to create zones, uses things like greek fire, thunderstones and the like but with bigger effects, create some martial rituals that allows the saboteur to create more complex traps (also think crafting in general should find a home as martial rituals)

To build an actual class you could even combine these concepts. Make two roles range and quick. The ranged role generally have powers that focus on creating fear in the opponent through sniping, while other powers revolve around trick shots and "trick arrows"

The quick role has powers that use speed of foot to create zones and effects to pull off the harrier route and general quickness to grant a pseudo reach by darting forth and springing back (basically spring attack) to do what the the polearm route would do.

Give the traps as rituals.

Just because or only current example of a controller relies on big flashy magical effects, does it mean they all will. Instead of a fireball the character just fires a ton of arrows, or one really good shot which frightens any allies nearby. Instead of a lighting bolt, the controller lines up a shot that either penetrates through multiple opponents or grazes several before finally hitting his true target. Remember hit points are just as much about morale as actual damage a martial controller should be all about creating fear in his opponents.
In this case it's not the arrow that does the damage it's the fact that the guy you were just talking to now has an arrow through his throat.

 

[Grimstaff]

You know the one thing I'm kind of lost on is the Basic Set... why are they waiting until November to release this.

Seriously? I would have thought that'd be obvious: Best Christmas Prestent Ever!

 

[Grimstaff]

Martial Controller? How about Monk?

Jackie Chan would approve (as he decimates a horde of ninjas with a refridgerator door)...

 

[drothgery]

By the time Arcane Power comes out we'll have a full set of arcane classes + 1: arcane defender (swordmage), arcane leader (bard), arcane striker (warlock), and TWO arcane controllers (wizards + sorcerer).

AND we still won't have a Martial Controller. The all martial game needs a controller long before arcane needs another controller besides the wizard.

A divine controller is somewhat more plausible, and though there's a decent chance there is one in PHB2, I have no idea what it is; no existing 3.5 class really qualifies (though some cleric and druid builds did).

Really, if you go through the power sources listed in the PH1

martial - most likely will never get a controller
divine - could easily have no striker or no controller
arcane - only power source known to have a 'full set'
primal - probably gets a 'full set'
elemental - probably doesn't have a leader
psionic - probably doesn't have a leader (the Complete Psi Ardent was very forced)
ki - again, probably doesn't have a leader, and might not have a controller (even Street Fighter II/Tome of Battle desert wind style ki powers seem more single-target than area of effect)
shadow - might have a complete set, but could easily be missing a defender (hexblade works, but is a bit redundant)

And monk is almost certainly a ki striker, which was obvious the day ki showed up on the official list of upcoming power sources.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

A divine controller is somewhat more plausible, and though there's a decent chance there is one in PHB2, I have no idea what it is; no existing 3.5 class really qualifies (though some cleric and druid builds did).

Really, if you go through the power sources listed in the PH1

martial - most likely will never get a controller

Probably right, I can't think of one...

divine - could easily have no striker or no controller

Most likely there will be, since there's 8 classes in the PHB and 2 of them are arcane, the other 6 can't all be primal. And there's certainly room for concepts such as Inquisitor (striker) and Theurge (controller). Besides who's going to get powers like Destruction or Slay Living?

arcane - only power source known to have a 'full set'
primal - probably gets a 'full set'
elemental - probably doesn't have a leader

Elemental hasn't really been defined, or even distinguished from primal. But I could easily see there being some class that calls out/enhances the elemental nature of their allies.

psionic - probably doesn't have a leader (the Complete Psi Ardent was very forced)

There's quite a lot of room and concept for a psionic leader. The ardent wasn't good since they took away half of it's abilities and made it the Divine Mind. Also you could so easily throw some telepathic powers, and ever fan-made 'hivemind' concept on to the ardent and you'll have your psionic leader.

ki - again, probably doesn't have a leader, and might not have a controller (even Street Fighter II/Tome of Battle desert wind style ki powers seem more single-target than area of effect)

I'm really at a loss at what the other classes would be, other than monk. They could reinstate the ToB classes, and controller would be the most difficult to come up with.

Making the Wu Jen part of that power source would be really forced and too much about the wrong type of cultural pidgeon-holing, as Wu Jen (Chinese for 'Witch Person') is clearly a class that should be elemental or primal.

Unless there's the plan on bringing back some of the Incarnum classes. In which case the Incarnate could be a ki controller.

shadow - might have a complete set, but could easily be missing a defender (hexblade works, but is a bit redundant)

I have a harder time envisioning a Shadow-leader.

Sure Hexblade might be redundant in that it could overlap with the Warlock (since it would be all about cursing) and Swordmage, but I think there's plenty of ways to make a class around using curses to be a defender.

As for the other shadow classes, I suspect it would be Shadowcaster (controller) as a necromancer/illusionist and Ninja (striker).

 

[thalmin]

Did WotC ever say there would be at least one of role for each power source? I do remember them stating that they were avoiding unnecessary symmetry.