WOTC switch to watermarking, finally...

[Thurbane]

Unless the price is significantly cheaper, I really have zero incentive to get a pdf rather than a hardback - only exception I can think of is for books that are out of print...

 

[CharlesRyan]

From comments made before, WotC didn't create their PDF products to get their foot into the PDF market. They got into it to serve their customers who don't have easy access to hard copies. From comments I've read, much of that group considers the price reasonable. If that group doesn't describe you then you aren't the market these products are aimed towards.

I'll add to that: They got into it to also serve customers who believe that PDF is a format that has alternative value to hardcover--not less value. If you think PDFs are worth less than hardcovers, they you aren't the market these products are aimed toward.

If, on the other hand, you think PDFs are a good a way (or a better way) to get your RPG content (they're portable, they're searchable, and you can do some cutting and pasting from them), you are the market these products are aimed toward. And if you're in this market, then there's no reason for the price to be lower.

 

[2WS-Steve]

With this 30% off sale exactly matching the price recommended and used by White Wolf for their PDFs I suspect that WotC is testing the PDF market as something other than a "we're just selling to people in Siberia and/or cyberfiends".

Moreover, I don't think it's purely an issue of how much people value hardcover vs PDF that goes into what we think is a reasonable price for a PDF.

The customers know that a hardcopy costs more to make and distribute than a PDF. We know that WotC gives up less to its distributors when selling PDFs. And we wonder why it is that WotC feels that it can't pass on any of these cost savings to its customers. That can make a customer feel ripped off.

 

[CharlesRyan]

The customers know that a hardcopy costs more to make and distribute than a PDF. We know that WotC gives up less to its distributors when selling PDFs. And we wonder why it is that WotC feels that it can't pass on any of these cost savings to its customers. That can make a customer feel ripped off.

I posit that the consumer doesn't "know" any of that stuff. The consumer may have some "internet wisdom" on the subject, and may, as a result, feel that one purchasing option is a worse deal than another. Fine. Go with the format that you think is the best deal.

But here's the bottom line: If Dungeonscape is worth $30 to you, then it's worth $30. If the physical, bookiness quality of the hardcover is part of that value to you, then buy the hardcover. If the portable, searchable quality of the PDF is valuable to you, buy the PDF. If it's not worth $30 either way, just don't buy it.

But don't try to break down the publisher's cost structure on a channel-by-channel basis and claim that you're due a discount based on a particular channel. If you do that--setting aside the fact that you don't actually know anything about WotC's cost structures--at the end of the day you could claim that Dungeonscape is "worth" a different price at every different store that sells it.

 

[Sammael]

It's not worth $30. None of WotC books in the past few years are worth their cover price (with the possible exception of Lords of Madness). They are, however, worth 66% of their cover price, which is how much Amazon is selling them for. THAT is the price that WotC has to beat/meet for their PDFs, not the MSRP (which most people aren't paying anyhow).

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think it shows that the cost of art and the many months it takes to write a develop one of these books is much more of where the cost comes from then the printing.

So years latter, on 3.0 products, they're STILL trying to recoup the costs?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Anyone know if these books incorporate the errata?

 

[mhensley]

This is still way too expensive as Amazon prices for real books are still lower and shipping is free if you order $25 or more. They need to cut these prices in half before I would even think of buying one. Pricing pdf's like this only encourage more piracy.

 

[CharlesRyan]

This is still way too expensive as Amazon prices for real books are still lower and shipping is free if you order $25 or more.

This is an entirely legitimate point: the MSRP isn't necessarily the market price. So WotC has to decide: do they contribute to the habit of discounting by doing it themselves--and thus undermine the brick-and-mortar stores that are so critical to the survival of the hobby game business? Or do they stick with the MSRP and risk losing some sales, but still keep ranks with the FLGSs?

There are pros and cons either way. I think in the past WotC has opted to support the MSRP, and thus supported the stores that rely on MSRP to stay afloat. Perhaps this sale is a sign that they're testing other strategies. Or perhaps it's just a sale.

Pricing pdf's like this only encourage more piracy.

This, on the other hand, is not a legitimate point. Internet pirates are not, by and large, price-sensitive. A $6 discount is not the price of most people's morals--they're either happy to steal (at any price), or they aren't.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I'll add to that: They got into it to also serve customers who believe that PDF is a format that has alternative value to hardcover--not less value. If you think PDFs are worth less than hardcovers, they you aren't the market these products are aimed toward.

If, on the other hand, you think PDFs are a good a way (or a better way) to get your RPG content (they're portable, they're searchable, and you can do some cutting and pasting from them), you are the market these products are aimed toward. And if you're in this market, then there's no reason for the price to be lower.

EXACTLY.

I bought Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (at Boarders with a 30 or 40% coupon and some credit that I had on my membership card) and immediately regretted it. Not because of content but because I saw how well produce the book was and realized that I didnt want to mark it up as I do most of my PDF bought adventures. I mean I can still use it but it doesnt provide as much phyiscal utility as a printed out PDF version would have.

Also PDF's are easier for us DM's who actually limit the amount of feats and spells and crap that are used in our games. I can cut and paste EXACTLY what feats are available for my game into a document and hand that document out at the table to my players. The same for expanded uses for skills and such. In that way PDF's are waaaaaaay more useful than actual physical books and why I dont mind paying for them.

That and I'm actually out of space on my physical bookshelves....