D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Kai Lord]

Folks who want Dark Sun should start looking at the non-WotC alternatives, of which there are at least a few.

Yes, like 2nd Edition AD&D which still provides everything you need (core rulebooks and campaign setting resources) on driverthrurpg.com. Though I suppose that's still technically "WOTC" unless you want to go the ebay route and purchase the original products.

 

[Alzrius]

Hasbro does not and will likely never sell off an IP that they own. They have a track record of seating on IP for years.

There are exceptions to every rule. Hasbro had already bought Wizards of the Coast when they sold Dragon Dice to SFR, Inc. in October of 2000.

 

[Staffan]

Tell me more about this Picnic Revolution.

Overuse of picnics turns you into a basket case.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Overuse of picnics turns you into a basket case.

I'm willing to risk it! Now, who's bringing the sangria?

 

[Alzrius]

Tell me more about this Picnic Revolution.

It ended cat-astrophically, due to the unscheduled Ant Uprising:

 

[M_Natas]

I don’t know, for SW I did not really like the prequel or sequel trilogy, but I still love the original. Rings of Power is bad, but LotR is still my favorite fantasy novel (series)

They do not get tainted by other things in the same universe, at least for me

Than you are a lucky guy. That doesn't work for everyone, sadly.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

It would be really funny if somebody created a survival videogame set in a set in a desert setting, with mutants and psionic powers, and it was sold very well. Then Hasbro CEOs would be asking.... why didn't we create a DS survival videogame?

 

[SteveC]

Such a strange thing to hear. It makes me wonder at the things that WotC thinks are non-controversial enough to include in virtually every adventure. Violence and murder being chief among them. I was interested in recent adventures with a non-combat approach to resolutions, but I realized while reading them that maybe D&D isn't the best system for them.

Is Dark Sun really that edgy in 2023? I've played DS (along with the exceptional video games!) and I guess I didn't see things to be outraged by. Maybe it's the lack of psionic power rules? (That sounds like a joke, but ... we don't have them and the edition is winding down).

This is definitely a setting to let people have-at in the DMsGuild.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Such a strange thing to hear. It makes me wonder at the things that WotC thinks are non-controversial enough to include in virtually every adventure. Violence and murder being chief among them. I was interested in recent adventures with a non-combat approach to resolutions, but I realized while reading them that maybe D&D isn't the best system for them.

Is Dark Sun really that edgy in 2023? I've played DS (along with the exceptional video games!) and I guess I didn't see things to be outraged by. Maybe it's the lack of psionic power rules? (That sounds like a joke, but ... we don't have them and the edition is winding down).

This is definitely a setting to let people have-at in the DMsGuild.

Regular violence and murder have never been treated as badly as certain other crimes in RPGs. Without them, it becomes very difficult to have broad appeal conflict.

 

[Reynard]

Regular violence and murder have never been treated as badly as certain other crimes in RPGs. Without them, it becomes very difficult to have broad appeal conflict.

Western and especially American action adventure stories have always been steeped in violence.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't know if it is in the marketing advice (quick google search couldn't find any of the original marketing from the launch); however, I did find this on Sage Advice (FYI Dan is a D&D designer for WotC):

View attachment 276376

Does that afterword actually exist? What does it say if so?

 

[SteveC]

Regular violence and murder have never been treated as badly as certain other crimes in RPGs. Without them, it becomes very difficult to have broad appeal conflict.

I get that and it honestly makes me kind of sad, but then I'm also an action movie guy and an American too, so I'm not trying to yuck anyone's yum. I just find it strange to take a moral stance on one thing, even when that thing is presented as terrible and something to fight against, but ignore other things. I suppose its the genre, isn't it?

I know this is drifting off topic, but as a dad, I am watching cartoons that have a lot of fighting and battles in them, and yet aren't really bloody and dark. I've often wondered why there isn't a mainstream RPG for younger kids that targets people who like that sort of thing.

I think you could easily do something on the level of the Spiderman/X-Men animated shows for Dark Sun, especially if you told people that's what you were doing.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The setting is controversial because of climate change, class warfare, and institutionalized slavery? Guess what, those are real things. You can’t have a dramatic story without conflict, and the more relatable it is the more effective the story.

Up to a point, yeah. But the point at which it switches from fantasy fun times to too real to be fun is remarkably...individual.

Like, if you got a player whose husband recently died, maybe skip the bereaved widow NPC you were thinkin' of including.

...and if you're playing in a setting that has Bereveaved Widows as a big part of it...well, maybe avoid that setting.

Slavery, especially, is something that for a huge part of the population of the US can make it hard to enjoy being a make-believe magic elf. Because it was a real thing whose far-reaching, traumatic effects reach forward for multiple generations and whose ugly legacy we are still struggling with as a country. Hell, parts of it were on multiple state ballot measures in 2022, the past isn't even really past yet when it comes to that.

Also, a lot of the "primitive" vibe of Dark Sun is hugely thorny. Old colonialist ideas of what makes a "proper" civilization and all that.

Personally, I'd say if they can pull off Dragonlance and its huge amount of land mines, they can probably pull of Dark Sun in a way that could work. But I don't speak for everyone, and maybe they don't want to (not worth the effort, too many things could go wrong, their advisors are telling them its a Bad Idea, whatever), and that's legit, too. I do not mind the hints I'm seeing of Dark Sun being worked into other settings (some DS elements were part of Spelljammer, for instance).

 

[Scribe]

Does that afterword actually exist? What does it say if so?

It does, but if I remember right, it was more about covid and isolation, than climate change.

That said, its been awhile.

 

[beaumontsebos]

Well, poo. This is my favorite setting. But it makes sense. A watered-down Dark Sun wouldn't be Dark Sun. And this setting would need lots of water... eh?

 

[MGibster]

Edit: and in the specific case of racism, unlike slavery it's something that a large percentage of the D&D player base might have actually experienced first hand. So yeah, it's pretty tasteless to be rubbing peoples' noses in the issue in a hobby that's supposed to be an enjoyable piece of escapism. Sure, there may be some people who can enjoy having their PC kick the snot out of fantasy racists, it's not up to WotC or anyone else to decide it's their place to administer one-size-fits-all amateur therapy in this manner

According to Evil Hat Productions' website, "Thirsty Sword Lesbians is a roleplaying game for telling queer stories with your friends." While I find nothing objectionable about this, it isn't a game for me. Not every game is for everybody. If someone doesn't want a game where you go kick racist butt, fine, move on to another game because this isn't for you. It's okay if you don't want to play that type of game, but it's okay if others do.

That said, I personally think Dark Sun had its chance in the 1990s. Let's move on to new settings instead of living in the past.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It does, but if I remember right, it was more about covid and isolation, than climate change.

That said, its been awhile.

That's what I'd expect, yeah.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That said, I personally think Dark Sun had its chance in the 1990s. Let's move on to new settings instead of living in the past.

Do you seriously think a WotC that releases an extremely mediocre barely-there setting of Spelljammer, seemingly just because people on the internet were memeing about it (the ol' Morbius/Snakes on a Plane), yet is terrified to pieces of Dark Sun is going to release an actual new D&D setting?

The best you can hope for is more MtG settings, I think.

 

[MGibster]

The best you can hope for is more MtG settings, I think.

Well thanks for destroying the last of my hopes and dreams!

 

[Blue Orange]

All I'm going to say is that I get the history and I get WoTC is a business and doesn't want to get itself in trouble, but it's sad you can't make a game where you're fighting against slavery anymore.