D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[mamba]

2. If the new products are bad and unsuccessful, my franchise could die and I get no new products at all or have to why 15 years, before I get something new (like with Star Trek).

in this case it seems more you get nothing at all as the alternative to a new attempt, so not really much to lose

I know it sounds silly, but new stuff for a franchise you like can literally ruin it for you.

I don’t know, for SW I did not really like the prequel or sequel trilogy, but I still love the original. Rings of Power is bad, but LotR is still my favorite fantasy novel (series)

They do not get tainted by other things in the same universe, at least for me

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

You can remove a hint and yes, bad guys are bad. That's the point. It's what makes them bad guys.

I agree so much. But reflecting on part of the hadozee outrage was the digging into the old product’s version and projecting that forward. A new Dark Sun that polished the elements that the current audience would be looking at still can’t hide from those who will dredge the old background back up as if it is still actively relevant. It will happen with the next version.

Another landmine is the cultural appropriation aspect. Draj (ancient Aztec), Urik (ancient Mesopotamia/Persia), Nibenay (Angkor Wat), Gulg (ancient Subsaharan!), Raam (ancient Indian subcontinent).

Those are worth WotC doing again, but I think this is where “being responsible” is the obvious right way. I see it as another opportunity they could bring in new authors who identify from those regions with those histories. But the “be responsible” to do it right will be another reason to hold it off.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I kind of doubt that this is the thing that is holding them up. If I had to guess, they just are not good at being culturally sensitive (which has been proven over and over again) and likely made the wise choice to hold off because they realized this. Maybe with their new sensitivity review process and upcoming standards document they can find the will to make it themselves or with a consultant(s).

I would not expect to ever see Dark Sun in 1D&D whilst the current leadership are in charge.

They have had cultural sensitivity issues, but the "extraordinarily difficult" line he used rings pretty false to me. 4E already expurgated some of the riskiest stuff from Dark Sun, and 5E would really just need to get rid of the slavery entirely, which is easily done because, if anything, serfdom makes more sense in a lot of ways. That includes renaming Muls and changing their slave-centric background. If their approach to half-races remains 1D&D one, you don't make them a half-race, just make them their own thing. Once that's out of the way, in a very real way, Dark Sun is less problematic than a lot of other settings in "cultural sensitivity" terms.

But the problem you can't remove without just deleting what makes Dark Sun Dark Sun is anthropogenic climate change and the Sorcerer-Lords. And they're not problematic in a "cultural sensitivity" way, but those are certainly going to spark some controversy in this era (even when back in the 1990s, they did not).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Another landmine is the cultural appropriation aspect. Draj (ancient Aztec), Urik (ancient Mesopotamia/Persia), Nibenay (Angkor Wat), Gulg (ancient Subsaharan!), Raam (ancient Indian subcontinent).

That's not a real landmine.

No-one is going to have a major issue with any of those, especially as most of them are ancient cultures. Every D&D setting is rife with that kind of stuff. You might want to tweak them a bit to make it less obvious and more sensitive, but if that's an issue, why does the FR continue to be the default setting for D&D, when it's basically manufactured entirely from "used parts" lol.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I see what you guys are saying, but I'm pretty sure it's the slavery and its sequale (like muls) that are the problem. I don't agree with that stance, as the slavers are the bad guys, but they (WotC) have been beaten up for the inclusion of slavery even in that context.

Slavery and related issues are easily fixed.

Serfdom and indentured servitude can replace them (literally everyone here is descended from someone who was an indentured servant or similar sometime in the last 300 years, unless there's actual pure royal blood among us - and even then!). The related issues can be dealt with. Muls get renamed and a different background. Or just deleted. They're not that huge an issue.

The slavery and the climate change can't be fixed. And it isn't the Dark Powers keeping Dark Domains dark like in Ravenloft.

Climate change is at the heart of Dark Sun. My point is that they won't do it because they're afraid some provocateur concern-trolls will make an issue out of that. It shouldn't be "fixed". There's nothing "icky" or "wrong" about it, and it's weird that you're acting like there is.

Slavery is easily fixed as I've said many times. Just replace it with similar oppressions that aren't slavery, especially not weird US-style chattel slavery (which is how the slavery in DS is presented, rather than as the less-extreme forms more common in history).

 

[dave2008]

I would not expect to ever see Dark Sun in 1D&D whilst the current leadership are in charge.

They have had cultural sensitivity issues, but the "extraordinarily difficult" line he used rings pretty false to me. 4E already expurgated some of the riskiest stuff from Dark Sun, and 5E would really just need to get rid of the slavery entirely, which is easily done because, if anything, serfdom makes more sense in a lot of ways. That includes renaming Muls and changing their slave-centric background. If their approach to half-races remains 1D&D one, you don't make them a half-race, just make them their own thing. Once that's out of the way, in a very real way, Dark Sun is less problematic than a lot of other settings in "cultural sensitivity" terms.

But the problem you can't remove without just deleting what makes Dark Sun Dark Sun is anthropogenic climate change and the Sorcerer-Lords. And they're not problematic in a "cultural sensitivity" way, but those are certainly going to spark some controversy in this era (even when back in the 1990s, they did not).

IDK, I am not really bothered by any of it in a fictional fantasy setting. I don't think it takes much at all to update it, but they are clearly not worried about my opinion.

That being said, I find it hard to believe people are concerned about fantasy climate change and fantasy sorcerer lords. But I clearly don't know what WotC is worried about!

 

[SAVeira]

It is quite easy to understand why WotC would not want to touch Dark Sun. It has not been much of a secret, why.

Paizo, over a year, come under fire due to their use of slavery in their work and have chosen to walk away from the subject matter. Controversially, Paizo won't mention slavery in Pathfinder ever again

 

[Minigiant]

Climate change is at the heart of Dark Sun. My point is that they won't do it because they're afraid some provocateur concern-trolls will make an issue out of that. It shouldn't be "fixed". There's nothing "icky" or "wrong" about it, and it's weird that you're acting like there is

Nah. No one would get far provoking climate change drama in a Post Apocalyptic setting.

The issue is Defilers. Defilers are people who live in a dying world and making it worse for power. That is a political correlation landmine.

 

[TwoSix]

My quality of life has been irrevocably damaged by this loss of Yet Another Reboot.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Nah. No one would get far provoking climate change drama in a Post Apocalyptic setting.

Realistically? Perhaps not. But we're talking what WotC are afraid of, which is often not realistic (c.f. the whole OGL situation).

The issue is Defilers. Defilers are people who live in a dying world and making it worse for power. That is a political correlation landmine.

I love this idea, but I think you're really overestimating how smart people are, and how many would make the connection. Fox News etc. certainly would not.

My quality of life has been irrevocably damaged by this loss of Yet Another Reboot.

I mean, true, but I think something much more interesting could have been done here.

Instead we'll no doubt get 5E sent off with a horrifically dull take on Planescape and 1D&D introduced with some kind of ultra-safe remake or MtG setting (they could be saving Dominiaria for it for example).