D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Minigiant]

I have been defending the inclusion of slavery in Dark Sun as a setting element but when I talked in these dark sun threads about re-reading the boxed set and said there were things more deserving of critique: this is exactly what so had in mind. I think we can debate the reasons for those choices (I can definitely see an argument that it was to create a sense of discomfort with the morality of the setting). But I believe it definitely stands out more as something I found myself doing several double takes on and asking myself why it was there

Racial superiority, racial subjugation, and eugenics were chosen as excuses for the genocides and slavery. It was allowed because it was obvious enough that fans could recognize it was bad. However due to D&D's demographics at the time and the focus on keeping their players over attracting more meant that these subjects were not deeply red hot buttons in the game.

"The wizard killed all the orcs with her slave army and sucked their souls to turn herself into a powerful being because she thought orcs were an inferior race. That's why you can't play an orc." was allowed to fly. Sure it was probably said "Orcs are banned. All the Orcs are dead.". However it is weird that this was used as an excuse multiple times in a apocalypse setting where many other apocalyptic excuses are available.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Racial superiority, racial subjugation, and eugenics were chosen as excuses for the genocides and slavery. It was allowed because it was obvious enough that fans could recognize it was bad. However due to D&D's demographics at the time and the focus on keeping their players over attracting more meant that these subjects were not deeply red hot buttons in the game.

Abd this why I generally err on the side of trying understand the intent. Lots of media veers into troubling territory, often because it respects its audience’s ability to understand where it is coming from or because it needs to create an emotional reaction. Ultimately I think Dark Sun is effective in the way it uses these elements. But for obvious reasons, when something like Eugenics or the kind of language I just quoted gets used, it is certainly worthy of examination

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The eugenecis can be retconnected easily. Let's say the sorcerer-kings have been playing the role of mad scientific, and with the secrets of the lifeshape craft they have been experimenting style "Resident Evil", and the fact some extinct lineages have reappeared thanks mutations. Other new lineages are also products of these experiments and mutantions, and the masterwork is the secret lineage of the elans. For example an elfling could the fruit of a halfling marriage, and both parents are 100% halflings, or a 100% dwarf marriage could be the parents of a mutant goliath.

Why should we ban or cancel when the retcon is an easier option? Let's not be too radical, please, in the name of the good sense!

The cartoon serie of the X-Men was about the racism, does it mean it couldn't be watched by children?

Nazis were very racist, then can't they be the villains in any +13 fiction work? Racism is totally wrong, but let's not allow a new taboo by fault of an irrational moral panic.

Now the classic Cobra commander can't wear his classic hood, because this is not politically correct. Please, he is the big bad guy!

Forget that stupid idea about only stongest ones can survive. In the real nature the most adapted ones have a better chance of surviving, and even then they need some luck. The dinosaurs were stronger, but they dissapeared when the circustances changed.

* Couldn't the rhulisti use the lifeshape craft to build "archologies" ( = super skycrapper buildings)? And then the city-states would be archologies. They could build using a material like bones instead concrete or stone.

* What if the Athasian Shadowfell, the "endless night" was a place of hope? the place of destination of lots of sentient souls without a "bad karma". Here they have discovered the way to farm "shadowtouched" plants, and these used to rebuild a civilitation. With enough time they could create divine effects as reincarnation, cloning or resurrection.

Maybe not only the sorcerer-kings know the existence of the faction of the "black spine" but also there is trade, because these sell water and metal from other places of the Athaspace.

 

[Bedrockgames]

The cartoon serie of the X-Men was about the racism, does it mean it couldn't be watched by children?

This is a very good point. X Men also gets into the Holocaust and even features a villain who was a Holocaust Survivor (at least in movies, I haven't read the comics so I can't comment on if that is canon or not). I thought that added a lot of depth to the character and complexity to what was going on. It is also something, in isolation a person online could paint as problematic. I am not a comic book movie guy at all (I hate marvel movies for the most part). But I found the X Men films fascinating and enjoyed them a lot because wasn't afraid to get into territory like this.

 

[Minigiant]

The eugenecis can be retconnected easily. Let's say the sorcerer-kings have been playing the role of mad scientific, and with the secrets of the lifeshape craft they have been experimenting style "Resident Evil", and the fact some extinct lineages have reappeared thanks mutations. Other new lineages are also products of these experiments and mutantions, and the masterwork is the secret lineage of the elans. For example an elfling could the fruit of a halfling marriage, and both parents are 100% halflings, or a 100% dwarf marriage could be the parents of a mutant goliath.

The issue is many fans don't want retcon.

That's the core issue. You can retcon all the problematic or controversial parts of Dark Sun out or into more acceptable version.

But then it would not be Dark Sun but "Generic Apocalypse Setting but Sandy".

The cartoon serie of the X-Men was about the racism, does it mean it couldn't be watched by children?

The X-Men got deep into racism.
Dark Sun went "Orcs are inferior so a mage wiped them out for power lulz. Breed dwarves and humans into super slaves for the cool" The racism what just excuses for the setting bans and not much more.

 

[Eubani]

Censorship is not the answer, all too often it appears to be a power trip from a vocal minority.

 

[Minigiant]

Censorship is not the answer, all too often it appears to be a power trip from a vocal minority.

I don't think Censorship is the problem but Effort.

WOTC has not in the past nor displayed today that it would put a ton of Effort into displaying controversial topics in acceptable manners. They've been burned. Several times.

And they don't trust the community to put in the effort either. They don't do the research into these topics and they don't expect community publishers to do it either. And WOTC can see the well-meaning parts of the community who would downplay the controversial parts out openly.

 

[Eubani]

I don't think Censorship is the problem but Effort.

WOTC has not in the past nor displayed today that it would put a ton of Effort into displaying controversial topics in acceptable manners. They've been burned. Several times.

And they don't trust the community to put in the effort either. They don't do the research into these topics and they don't expect community publishers to do it either. And WOTC can see the well-meaning parts of the community who would downplay the controversial parts out openly.

You do not need a well thought out reason or argument when you can label or imply the other person as some sort of ism or phobic. Censorship is not the way to fight evil ideas and is often an evil itself.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't think Censorship is the problem but Effort.

WOTC has not in the past nor displayed today that it would put a ton of Effort into displaying controversial topics in acceptable manners. They've been burned. Several times.

And they don't trust the community to put in the effort either. They don't do the research into these topics and they don't expect community publishers to do it either. And WOTC can see the well-meaning parts of the community who would downplay the controversial parts out openly.

Yup. It all comes down to fear of the mob.

 

[Maxperson]

Why should anyone have to cope with slavery in a fantasy setting? It's FANTASY, there's nothing wrong with wanting your fantasy game to be better than the real world.

That means that we should get rid of monsters, theft, murder, assault, fraud, evil leaders, etc. from the game as well. If we're going to be making the game better than the real world, there's lots to remove from D&D.

Additionally, there really isn't a "cope with slavery" to be had. If you are okay with fantasy slavery because it's fantasy and doesn't touch the real world, play with it. If you are not okay with it for any reason, don't play with it. You aren't forced to cope with slavery.