D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Imaro]

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An example where controversial subject matter was addressed and no backlash happened. It has for all intents and purposes been reduced to... "because they were not white' as opposed to it was handled well, it was well written, etc. And I would note by someone I don't think has even read it to be honest. No... that couldn't possibly be it. That's impossible.


Let's ignore what was being advertised as a selling point.

@Eubani Please stop conflating your comments with my own. Also if it wasn't such a unicorn to have things for D&D written by PoC it wouldn't be a "selling" point... would it?

 

[Imaro]

@Eubani Please stop conflating your comments with my own. Also if it wasn't such a unicorn to have things for D&D written by PoC it wouldn't be a "selling" point... would it?

 

[Minigiant]

No backlash happened with Radiant Citidel because they put in the work.

Now why did they put in the work when WOTC typically doesn't? That is obvious.

 

[James Gasik]

That means that we should get rid of monsters, theft, murder, assault, fraud, evil leaders, etc. from the game as well. If we're going to be making the game better than the real world, there's lots to remove from D&D.

Additionally, there really isn't a "cope with slavery" to be had. If you are okay with fantasy slavery because it's fantasy and doesn't touch the real world, play with it. If you are not okay with it for any reason, don't play with it. You aren't forced to cope with slavery.

That quote was replying to what Kunadam said; " if today's sensibilities (or should I say, US sensibilities) cannot cope with slavery in a fantasy setting, then the source of the slaves does not matter."

I don't expect anyone to cope with slavery. If someone doesn't want it in their fantasy setting, obviously, they won't have it there. And if you join a game with slavery and don't care for it, obviously, you will leave that game.

I'm not against mature settings or themes. I play VtM where everyone is a posthuman nihilist immortal who broods all the time and assaults people to survive, in a world circling the drain with very little hope of salvation. And that game has received it's own share of criticism and ridicule over the years (if anyone remembers that "Real Stories of the Highway Patrol" episode).

But D&D, to many people, is the definition of what an RPG is. Like it or not, it's the flagship. It's come under fire a lot over the years, and in the current environment, a lot of people (which includes would-be consumers) are touchy about certain topics. And mayhap they have a right to be, that's not my place to judge.

When marketing a game of "heroic fantasy" for players of 12 and up, I'm sure trying to make D&D seem "family friendly" is a high priority. If you're a young player, you want to be able to show your parents your books and say "see, it's all for fun".

It's a little hard to sell that with some settings. Ravenloft and Dark Sun, especially (though in truth, most settings have some vile stuff in them, like Zhentarim, Thay, or the Scarlet Brotherhood). Now us older gamers might see things differently; we're more mature, we want more mature settings.

But WotC likely fears that a book with a slipcover saying ADULTS ONLY won't help their brand. And while it's probably true that 12 year olds can handle Dark Sun, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the one to make that judgement call. I'm sure WotC wants to do that even less.

 

[Maxperson]

An example where controversial subject matter was addressed and no backlash happened. It has for all intents and purposes been reduced to... "because they weren't white' as opposed to it was handled well, it was well written, etc. And I would note by someone I don't think has even read it to be honest. No... that couldn't possibly be it. That's impossible.

Have you been paying attention to how this has been handled in society in recent years? A white person writing an adventure based on asian culture would be problematic. An asian person writing an adventure based on asian culture would be appropriate. That's how it has been for a number of years now.

 

[Maxperson]

That quote was replying to what Kunadam said; " if today's sensibilities (or should I say, US sensibilities) cannot cope with slavery in a fantasy setting, then the source of the slaves does not matter."

I don't expect anyone to cope with slavery. If someone doesn't want it in their fantasy setting, obviously, they won't have it there. And if you join a game with slavery and don't care for it, obviously, you will leave that game.

I'm not against mature settings or themes. I play VtM where everyone is a posthuman nihilist immortal who broods all the time and assaults people to survive, in a world circling the drain with very little hope of salvation. And that game has received it's own share of criticism and ridicule over the years (if anyone remembers that "Real Stories of the Highway Patrol" episode).

Fair enough. I've missed a number of posts and didn't get the context of your response.

But D&D, to many people, is the definition of what an RPG is. Like it or not, it's the flagship. It's come under fire a lot over the years, and in the current environment, a lot of people (which includes would-be consumers) are touchy about certain topics. And mayhap they have a right to be, that's not my place to judge.

When marketing a game of "heroic fantasy" for players of 12 and up, I'm sure trying to make D&D seem "family friendly" is a high priority. If you're a young player, you want to be able to show your parents your books and say "see, it's all for fun".

It's a little hard to sell that with some settings. Ravenloft and Dark Sun, especially (though in truth, most settings have some vile stuff in them, like Zhentarim, Thay, or the Scarlet Brotherhood). Now us older gamers might see things differently; we're more mature, we want more mature settings.

But WotC likely fears that a book with a slipcover saying ADULTS ONLY won't help their brand. And while it's probably true that 12 year olds can handle Dark Sun, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the one to make that judgement call. I'm sure WotC wants to do that even less.

I don't see why they can't do both. The vast majority of stuff is family friendly, but a few things like Ravenloft and Dark Sun get marked "Mature Content" and then the parents of the kids can make that call. If the kids sneak it, WotC has an easy out by pointing at the Mature Content warning on the front.

 

[Minigiant]

Have you been paying attention to how this has been handled in society in recent years? A white person writing an adventure based on asian culture would be problematic. An asian person writing an adventure based on asian culture would be appropriate. That's how it has been for a number of years now.

Nah.

The difference again is research. A person of the same demo is more likely to do the research.

 

[Scribe]

Nah.

The difference again is research. A person of the same demo is more likely to do the research.

I'm starting to believe this place is about as indicative of reality as Twitter, so perhaps I need to just dismiss things quicker, but no.

We've been told for years now, the research doesn't matter, as much as the the ancestry (not even birth place) of the writer and the subject matter.

 

[Minigiant]

I'm starting to believe this place is about as indicative of reality as Twitter, so perhaps I need to just dismiss things quicker, but no.

We've been told for years now, the research doesn't matter, as much as the the ancestry (not even birth place) of the writer and the subject matter.

Well that's usually because creators don't do the research or do the shoddiest research they can do to force what they were going to do anyway.

 

[Scribe]

Well that's usually because creators don't do the research or do the shoddiest research they can do to force what they were going to do anyway.

I mean that's fine to believe, but it doesn't change the reality that there are people here, and on social media who claim that regardless of research, work that references or plays off a region in the real world, can only be appropriately done by someone with ancestry from the region with sensitivity readers from the same.