Wotc_Huscarl on the Biggie Smalls playtest, part 4.

[Rechan]

Sounds a lot like Spring Attack, actually. I wonder if the must move at least five feet both before and after the attack clause will still be retained.

I couldn't tell if Biggie moved before his attack from the text.

 

[FireLance]

Or a dwarf power. It was mentioned in R&C that dwarves had a racial power that let them use second wind an additional time each encounter. A power letting second wind be used with a minor action would fit well with that.

And if it's not a dwarf power, I'm making it one. I just love the idea of formations of dwarves with their well-made armors and improved constitutions utilizing their improved second wind abilities to hold the formation for incredible amounts of time, exhausting enemy forces with stamina, tactics, and cohesion.

Well, given that the human schtick is supposed to be "dramatic actions and dramatic recoveries", I'd say that second wind as a minor action fits better with that.

 

[Imban]

That's a very, very good idea.

It's ridiculous the number of rpgs where you have to roll 6+ dice at a time.

They're probably moving to this - for instance, a 6d6 fireball could be rewritten as 2d6+15 (they mentioned rounding to nearest 5s) damage and still keep a good range of damage, whereas a 20d6 blast of horrid wilting could be rewritten as 6d6+50. This does reduce the potency of effects like Maximize Spell, but in an edition change you can balance around that.

Of course, since we're shooting for keeping a significantly random range of results, that could also be rewritten as 3d12+50 - you'd get your less than 6 dice there, then. It'd also create a reason for d12s - high-end damage effects where you'd need to roll a lot of d6s to get the random range around the center you want, which is counterproductive because the more dice you roll, the higher the chance of getting something about in the middle...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I hope it scales in some way. And you add your normal bonuses...

I hope it doesn't. If it scales, you end up with the same "widing gap" in attack bonuses as in 3.x, resulting in the typical extremes of "always hits" and "never hits".

I think I would have preferred the reroll concept. I like it because it grants a better success chance without increasing absolute values (as someone else already pointed out.)

Though maybe it makes more sense in the context of the full game
- How many rerolls do we want? When do we arrive at a "bucket of dice" system.
- They really want a power that increases the absolute values, so that a Ranger can make more daring attacks.

I am not yet concerned with the balance of the power, I think it is probably all about oppertunity cost. Either get a +4 to attack, or get a +10 to damage (or something like that).

 

[Sitara]

Careful Strike appears similar to Acrobatic Strike Feat in SAGA (which only Jedi or scoundrels can take). That give you a +5 bonus to attack rolls, as long as you tumble through an opponents AoO. There is also a careful shot feat in SAGA...

Careful Strike apapears to be a combination of the careful shot and acrobatic strike feats from SAGA and probably requires the pc to use the 'aim' action first (which is 2 swift actions in SAGA). and then use the power.

Moving attack and then moving again does seem like spring attack, Interestingly this appears to be a class power now...so maybe it has some other unmentioned effect. (such as gaining a bonus to AC until your next turn).

Lastly, 'Minoir' actions probably refers to move AND swift actions. Either that, OR 'minor actions' is a term that has replaced 'swift actions', but mechanically it is similar.

Anyhow good stuff. Great find and I do hope we start getting more and more crunch. Heck I think this is the FIRST instance of Ranger Crunch we have seen...(and its still being tweaked and changed....)

 

[Kaisoku]

It doesn't sound like Spring Attack at all... there's nothing about movement before the attack whatsoever, he was surrounded remember?

"Thanks to a class power, Biggie could attack one of the elves and then move away without provoking an AoO from that opponent."

That sounds more like an ability to reduce a person's capability of making AoO's, not making yourself less prone to provoking AoO's.

He attacked one guy, and ate the AoO from the other one as he ran off.


What concerns me is that AoO are obviously still in the game with much the same rules. I just hope all the "special maneuvers" keep a more uniform mechanic for them, since it's tiring to figure things out mid combat like "Does drinking a potion provoke an AoO? How about using a wand to heal.. or how about using a wand to do a touch attack (Shocking Grasp), or what about standing up from prone, etc".

 

[Perun]

Rangers get +4 to attack rolls at will? Interesting. I wonder if there's some downside to that power that didn't get mentioned, like reduced damage or something.

There's also the fact that all classes now get the unified progression in BAB and defenses (AC, Fort, Refl, Will) equal to 1/2 per level. Careful Strike could be one of the ways through which the ranger (since it's a class ability) boosts his attack bonus; perhaps a part of a tiered system, like manoeuvre trees in Tome of Battle (so you could have the "Less Careful Strike", a low-level at-will ability that gives you a +2 bonus to hit, Careful Strike with +4, "Very Careful Strike" for +6, etc.).

Regards.

 

[FireLance]

It doesn't sound like Spring Attack at all... there's nothing about movement before the attack whatsoever, he was surrounded remember?

"Thanks to a class power, Biggie could attack one of the elves and then move away without provoking an AoO from that opponent."

That sounds more like an ability to reduce a person's capability of making AoO's, not making yourself less prone to provoking AoO's.

He attacked one guy, and ate the AoO from the other one as he ran off.

Spring Attack protects you against AoOs for movement by the creature you attack. It doesn't protect you against AoOs from other opponents. If you are flanked, you could move five feet and attack one opponent, provoking an AoO from the other one, and then move the rest of your speed. The fact that it was not stated that Biggie moved before attacking led me to wonder if the must move at least five feet before and after the attack clause is still there.

 

[Kaisoku]

I've never seen Spring Attack used to move out of a threatened space both before and after the attack (usually it's after the move only.. as in, move into combat and then out again, and not provoking for moving out). I guess since the wording is a blanket "moving in this way" it makes sense...

From the sounds of it though, that's not how the ability was described. If anything, it sounds more focused on the "prevent a person from making an Attack of Opportunity" than the movement part.

 

[Sitara]

Ah yes correct. So the power/talent blcoks AoO's from one opponenet. So biggie would have been in trouble had he been surrounded by melee oponenets.

As a side note, Spring Atack has mobility as a pre-req; therefore it can be used to escape AoO's with some degree of success.