WotC_Rodney on Ari M. and Al Qadim

[ruleslawyer]

It didn't much resemble medieval Islam, which I don't think of as being particularly tolerant except maybe in comparison to medieval Christianity, but I guess it fitted the setting at least as well as the usual polytheist-gods-in-Christian-churches approach in European derived fantasy.

We're in a bit of a tight place here what with the forum rules on religion/politics discussions, but I hope I can at least get away with saying that the Law of the Loregiver and the way in which Fate is portrayed are pretty much in line with the references to Islamic traditions and figures in historical Arabia, Turkey, and Persia. Keep in mind that for great swaths of its history, the medieval dar-ul-Islam was *very* tolerant of other religions, in large part because converts meant a loss to the tax base. AQ's strong emphasis on racial equality, the division of priests into kahin and temple clergy, and several other elements are very much of a piece with Arabian culture, and specifically of the role of Islam within that culture.

But yeah, I'm with you regarding elves, dwarves, etc. It's a clever analogy of historical ethnicities with D&D tropes, but it does suffer from the fact that D&D races come out of Tolkien and through him, Celtic and Norse folklore. Too bad we didn't have kender and dragonborn and gnomes as the core races, hm?

 

[Klaus]

BTW I don't know much about AQ's approach to religion; the AQ campaign I played in it seemed to be basically polytheist with an emphasis on synergism/blending - "Pantheist" meant "Worships the Pantheon", as opposed to its usual "Deities in Everything" meaning, which caused me a bit of confusion

It didn't much resemble medieval Islam, which I don't think of as being particularly tolerant except maybe in comparison to medieval Christianity, but I guess it fitted the setting at least as well as the usual polytheist-gods-in-Christian-churches approach in European derived fantasy.

If you step over to Circvs Maximvs, we can expand on this.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

BTW I don't know much about AQ's approach to religion; the AQ campaign I played in it seemed to be basically polytheist with an emphasis on synergism/blending - "Pantheist" meant "Worships the Pantheon", as opposed to its usual "Deities in Everything" meaning, which caused me a bit of confusion

It didn't much resemble medieval Islam, which I don't think of as being particularly tolerant except maybe in comparison to medieval Christianity, but I guess it fitted the setting at least as well as the usual polytheist-gods-in-Christian-churches approach in European derived fantasy.

Yeah, Ruleslawyer is spot on.

The Dar was pretty tolerant of different religions - though you could always occasionally be in trouble just as a scapegoat or if you were way too idolatrous or unfamiliar which Al-Quadim also reflected - and very very tolerant of other races. A lot less tolerant of blasphemy and heresy within Islam - but that had a very specific political purpose. Kingdoms weren't allowed to go to war within the Dar except on grounds of religious correction, so you pretty much had to find a heresy if you wanted a taste of that underdefended port in North Africa.

It also just inherited a lot of the Hellenistic project of Cosmopolitanism. It's impressive how often Alexander the Great shows up as a founding figure in the broader literary body of the Dar and its satellites.

What Al-Quadim did that was cool clever was say that the truth of the Lawgiver was applicable to gods as well as men. So you could go around and convert them to the new 'meta' religion as well. It preserved both the gamist elements of DnD and the political-religious feel of the Dar.

 

[S'mon]

What Al-Quadim did that was cool clever was say that the truth of the Lawgiver was applicable to gods as well as men. So you could go around and convert them to the new 'meta' religion as well. It preserved both the gamist elements of DnD and the political-religious feel of the Dar.

That makes a lot of sense in a setting where the gods are real and free-willed, and fits the Islamic view of Djinn. I believe it happened a bit in Christianity too, in some areas pagan deities like Apollo continued to be revered as Christian saints.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

That makes a lot of sense in a setting where the gods are real and free-willed, and fits the Islamic view of Djinn. I believe it happened a bit in Christianity too, in some areas pagan deities like Apollo continued to be revered as Christian saints.

I think Apollo shows up more as an influence in Iconography rather than as an actual character.

There is, however, an 11th century Southern Italian Saint Guattama who is pretty clearly - even explicitly - the Buddha.

Yeah, Gregory the Great has a fantastic letter to St. Augustine - the Missionary to England not the Church Father - about this very point.

St. Austin has complained that the Saxons are too uncouth even as Christians.

Gregory writes back basically saying that he needs to get over it and even embrace it. Wash the blood off the altar, move the sacrifice outside, and call it a Bar-B-Que. If Christ is a part of reality rather than a strictly cultural thing than you should probably even ere on the side of preservation rather than dismiss everything foreign - cause he certainly got there before you did.

I say this not as a religious screed of any kind, simply to demonstrate that the 'Dark Ages' were actually pretty fascinating time in at least this intellectual arena.

 

[S'mon]

I say this not as a religious screed of any kind, simply to demonstrate that the 'Dark Ages' were actually pretty fascinating time in at least this intellectual arena.

No argument from me - I love the Dark Ages. It's when the West was born.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

No argument from me - I love the Dark Ages. It's when the West was born.

And the East(s) really.