WotC_Rodney: Trap Fun!

[billd91]

This kind of name-game activity happens at game tables all the time. The game creates and evolves its own parlance constantly. Ask the typical person what a cantrip is, they’ll stare at you blankly. On the individual game group side ask my players what Volo’s Law is, and they will tell you without hesitation. Other D&D players will just stare at you blankly. I don't think the creation of this gaming parlance is avoidable or necessarily undesirable.

It may happen, but that doesn't make it desireable in the rulebooks. That's the problem some of us see with it. Honestly, which tells you more about the maneuver, tornado strike or blowback? Quite frankly, when I saw tornado strike, I thought of the power Storm has in the X-men console games on my Xbox. You know... something rotational.
There's a reason that tornadoes are called twisters and cyclones and it's not because they knock you back.

Personally, I don't want unnecessary barriers to clarity in my rulebooks. I don't want them on the dozens of characters I'm going to make up as NPCs. I want a good mnemonic devices like terms that offer good hints at their significance (Nimblefingers is reasonably suggestive, Alertness is very descriptive), are short (cleave is short and easy to associate), or follow a quirky enough pattern that is hard to forget (Oh, be a fine girl, kiss me for spectral classes of stars).

 

[Joshua Randall]

I will grant that all games have nomenclature that has to be learned.

I still maintain that there is an important difference between a name that suggests something about what the power does (e.g. Dodge, Whirlwind Attack) and a name that is purely descriptive and/or calls to mind an image that is at odds with the mechanical effects of the power (e.g. Dragon Tail Cut, Tornado Strike).

I think the fact that we can all instantly agree that Dodge should somehow make you harder to hit is a clear indication that it's a good name. Now, we can argue over what mechanics should be used to model that (AC bonus? Ref bonus? some kind of reactive combat maneuever? miss chance?), but that's just the details. Dodge maintains its core meaning regardless.

I think the fact that we cannot agree about Tornado Strike indicates it's a... not so good name.

hong: Expertise (and its 3.5 update, Combat Expertise) is simply a bad name, period.

On the individual game group side ask my players what Volo’s Law is, and they will tell you without hesitation. Other D&D players will just stare at you blankly.

Wow. This attitude is just feeding people's (mistaken, IMHO) belief that 4e is a collection of the designer's pet house rules and pet names for things.

Cantrip is a real world, albeit an obscure one, whose in-game meaning is very close to its dictionary meaning ("a magic spell; trick by sorcery"). Same thing goes for dweomer. And dodge.

Tornado Strike depends upon the game to give it a definition -- there is no real world meaning to it.

 

[kennew142]

I will grant that all games have nomenclature that has to be learned.

I still maintain that there is an important difference between a name that suggests something about what the power does (e.g. Dodge, Whirlwind Attack) and a name that is purely descriptive and/or calls to mind an image that is at odds with the mechanical effects of the power (e.g. Dragon Tail Cut, Tornado Strike).

Oh no! Another thread hijacked by the great 4e nomenclature controversy! It's Golden Wyvern Adept all over again.

I'm not disputing your point that the name blows (pun intended), but this topic is right up there with kender vs. halflings vs. hobbits and katana vs. longsword for subjects most likely to take over every thread in this forum.

 

[hong]

Wow. This attitude is just feeding people's (mistaken, IMHO) belief that 4e is a collection of the designer's pet house rules and pet names for things.

Which would in any case feed into the great D&D tradition of things like Mordenkainen's Mansion, Tenser's Floating Disc and the Talisman of Zagyg, yes?

Tornado Strike depends upon the game to give it a definition -- there is no real world meaning to it.

Of course there's a real world meaning to it. A tornado tosses people around and knocks things down. Seems quite reasonable to me.

 

[The_Fan]

Can we call Godwin's on the naming debate already?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Which would in any case feed into the great D&D tradition of things like Mordenkainen's Mansion, Tenser's Floating Disc and the Talisman of Zagyg, yes?

I feel I should point out that Tenser's Floating Disc is quite possibly one of the most descriptive spell names ever.

Bigby: Hey, Tenser. What's that new Floating Disc spell of yours do?
Tenser: It makes a floating disc.
Bigby: And...?
Tenser: You can put things on the disc.
Bigby: ...and...?
Tenser: The disc keeps floating even when you put things on it.
Bigby: Right. Man, that's gotta be super useful. Say, I've gotta go. I've got a hot date and I want to try out a few new Bigby's Hand effects, if you know what I mean. Good luck with the floating.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Which would in any case feed into the great D&D tradition of things like Mordenkainen's Mansion, Tenser's Floating Disc and the Talisman of Zagyg, yes?

Touche.

Can we call Godwin's on the naming debate already?

You have to compare me to Hitler first.

But yeah, I'll drop it.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Emphasis mine.

I will grant that all games have nomenclature that has to be learned.

I still maintain that there is an important difference between a name that suggests something about what the power does (e.g. Dodge, Whirlwind Attack) and a name that is purely descriptive and/or calls to mind an image that is at odds with the mechanical effects of the power (e.g. Dragon Tail Cut, Tornado Strike).

What on earth are you talking about?

Seriously, this is why these arguments are stupid, I doubt anybody could ever convince me "tornado" doesn't describe knocking people over/tossing them around yet "whirlwind" does describe attacking multiple people around you.

I mean, it's not as bad as whoever was saying "Gate" was a good descriptive name for a spell because it "gates" people in, but you're still holding 4e up to a complete double standard.

 

[Klaus]

Which would in any case feed into the great D&D tradition of things like Mordenkainen's Mansion, Tenser's Floating Disc and the Talisman of Zagyg, yes?



Of course there's a real world meaning to it. A tornado tosses people around and knocks things down. Seems quite reasonable to me.

"Tornado" implies, IMHO, a wind of sorts. Like pushing people back with an air-based spell or whatnot.

Maybe, I dunno, "Catapult Strike"?

 

[Nytmare]

Not to sidetrack things too far from the argument at hand, but this is what I use for my gaming table's table cloth.

http://www.tylersdisplay.com/duvateen.html