WotC_Shoe on leaderless parties

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I dunno. Can you:
a)Fetch a bottle from your ludicrously overstuffed backpack.
b)Open it. (Remember it's got to be stoppered ppretty well, or you've got a traveling cloak and some iron rations which had all their wounds lightly cured)
c)Guzzle it.

In three seconds, while defending yourself against a rampaging orc? While holding a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other? (Or a 2-handed weapon, or an 'implement'?)

I disagree with step A. Stick the potion in your belt (or, if you're mechanically inclined, put it on your helmet and connect to your mouth with a straw).

 

[hong]

IMO it would be better to keep it at a std action, and boost the healing. Not to mention that there's other potions besides healing ones: a potion of speed as a minor action?

 

[HeinorNY]

I hoped they changed the game so characters wouldn't need to drink potions in the middle of a fight anymore.

I know it's one of the holiest cows in D&D and even a basic foundation of the game, but I still think drinking potion in mid combat to be very cheesy.

In the few Drizzt novels I read I can't recall him ever driking a potion. And some people call HIM cheesy.

 

[Lackhand]

Drinking potions as a minor action makes the game less like an RPG, and more like .....

a) a minis game
b) a ccg
c) a video game
d) anime

I'm not sure which talking point we'll see in this thread, but it will likely be one of the above.

BTW, I like the idea of drinking potions as less than a standard action. I could go for move or minor - anything is better than a standard action IMO.

Hints, and my complete ass-pullery, indicate that move actions are only for moving now, with former move actions becoming, tadaa, minor actions.

I'm cool with it taking a minor action, so long as there are decent rules for:
1) retrieving stowed gear, and the costs associated. How much can you hang from a belt? Is there any reason not to just keep all your potions in a bandolier? Shouldn't quick-draw (or similar) apply to them?

2) Uncorking. I mean, you actually have to manipulate the thing; some potions are nice, some potions aren't; some potions might be quick quaffs, and others longer. This doesn't really need rules. I might just sometimes say to the players "No, the stopper is stuck; it takes both hands and a minor action to open the vial".

3) Switching objects from hand-to-hand, or from character-to-character. Nothing big -- it takes a minor action from each, and a delay from the quicker one, maybe?

4) Administering consumables to fallen comrades. 3e had this. Keep it, please.

 

[rkanodia]

Drinking potions as a minor action makes the game less like an RPG, and more like .....

a) a minis game
b) a ccg
c) a video game
d) anime

I'm not sure which talking point we'll see in this thread, but it will likely be one of the above.

BTW, I like the idea of drinking potions as less than a standard action. I could go for move or minor - anything is better than a standard action IMO.

I agree. 'Standard action, draws Attacks of Opportunity' is ridiculous. You're already wasting your turn getting back a few hit points, now you have to get hit for the privilege?

I know it's horribly gamist, but I think that potions as a minor action, with a limit to the number of potions you can have 'ready', would be a good way to go about it. Unfortunately, I can't think of any way to 'sell' a non-monetary limit on how many potions you can have to players who want a rationale for it other than, "It makes it possible to make potions a good option, without meaning that a big bankroll makes you effectively invincible."

Maybe something like, you can only metabolize two potions per encounter. That wouldn't make your 'loadout' of potions a meaningful choice, but it would make their availability a useful piece of tactical information.

 

[small pumpkin man]

I dunno. Can you:
a)Fetch a bottle from your ludicrously overstuffed backpack.
b)Open it. (Remember it's got to be stoppered ppretty well, or you've got a traveling cloak and some iron rations which had all their wounds lightly cured)
c)Guzzle it.

In three seconds, while defending yourself against a rampaging orc? While holding a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other? (Or a 2-handed weapon, or an 'implement'?)

If it were me designing the game, it would be a full-round action. Which is why I don't get to design games.

I think implementing drinking a potion as a minor action would be ripping off...uh...college drinking games, I guess.

(I could see something like 'a minor action if not currently threatened, or, if threatened, at the players choice, either a full-round action with no AOO or a move action with AOO')

On a happier note, it's a good sign that a Leaderless game is at least possible, if not necessarily easy. It's good to know the game isn't designed so tightly around the roles that you can't begin the instance until you've found a Cleric LFG.

Watch a marathon or a bicycle race sometime, watch how long it takes them to down their fluids, it's not long, it's certainly not six seconds.

People get really good at doing their jobs, Adventuring is usually the PC's job, if drinking potions is worth doing, the PCs are going to become very good at it.

Not saying it should be overly easy, or that it shouldn't provoke an AoO (or OA as they're apparently known now), but drinking something designed to be drunk in combat by someone who regularly does it in situations where speed is important isn't going to take as long as me taking bottle of coke out of my bag and taking a sip.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm cool with it taking a minor action, so long as there are decent rules for:
1) retrieving stowed gear, and the costs associated. How much can you hang from a belt? Is there any reason not to just keep all your potions in a bandolier? Shouldn't quick-draw (or similar) apply to them?

Assuming small items are not destroyed over the coarse of a battle is acceptable when the item's assumed safety is at least paid for by the item being inaccessible to some degree. If the potion is safely tucked away enough not to be broken when the character falls 40 feet, it also just as safety tucked away when it comes time to drink it.

 

[DeathMutant]

I think implementing drinking a potion as a minor action would be ripping off...uh...college drinking games, I guess.

Now if you were wearing one of those cool Helms of Rapid (potion) Drinking that holds a potion on either side of your head with a long tube connected to each vial and inserted into your mouth. . .

 

[Ximenes088]

I think it worth recalling that a potion is one ounce of liquid. You don't have to "chug" anything to down one liquid ounce, and with the 1 hit point/hardness 1 state of most potion bottles, a reasonably strong PC can just toss the whole vial in his mouth and _bite_ it open.

I don't think it'd be too hard to justify a mechanical means of downing a potion in certainly no more time than it takes to draw a weapon. Your free hand goes to your belt, you extract the tiny one-inch by two-inch bottle, you snap off the top with your thumb, and you toss back the liquid inside. Some limit may exist as to how many potions you could keep near to hand, but it's apt to be a very large one. How many 1"x2" containers can you wear if you think your life might depend on them?

 

[Imp]

I anxiously await the Gnomish Potion-Drinking Hat in PHB IV (covering the power sources of Shadow and Convenience).