Would someone help me understand what Gelstalt is?

[Herobizkit]

Imagine that I went back to 1990, and proposed a Gestalt character to the groups of the time:

My proposed new class has all of the abilities of the mage, plus all of the abilities of the fighter, the hit points of the mage, the best saving throws of each class, and no disadvantages whatsoever to offset the gain. (Not to mention the Feats of both classes, plus the standard Feats for level, plus gaining points in your stats, plus skills - in this case, the best of both class worlds for skills.)

Everyone in the room would stop talking. There would be total silence. There would. The DM would ask: what's the punchline of the joke?

I'd say you were playing an Elf from OD&D. Of course, they do have that weighty XP "penalty", but still...

 

[Herobizkit]

Just to add to the Gestalt fandom, my group uses Gestalt rules.

I thoroughly enjoy them for all the reasons they explain in the UA. We have a small group (never more than three players) and we find Gestalt really opens up a character's abilities. It's great to know that we all have our bases covered without having to resort to the tag-along NPC.

However, like all things D&D, there will come a time when I have tried all the "fun" combos and will look to other products for a rush. Monte's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, Blue Rose, and Iron Kingdoms all wait patiently to be unleashed on my campaign worlds.

 

[Kisanji Arael]

Gestalt is an experiment in Min/Maxing. It throws class specific stereotypes out the window.

... Oh, you're a monk/Paladin.... do you have trouble getting things done, having to pray to your God and meditate on yourself every day. Do you have troubles balancing the Judeo-Christian focus on the self and the Buddhist focus on its destruction?"

The idea behind it is "Assume that there is a maximum of every quantity (skills, HP, etc.) that you can obtain. How effective of a killing machine can you make with your character? If you are a psion/soulknife, who is both swift enough to move like a hummingbird and powerful enough magically (sorry, psionically) to destroy anything sent against you, what happens when you combine those traits? How can you make that class, which is already at a peak of killing capacity, as good as possible? How can the other players around you defeat it? How can your DM challenge you?

It is an interesting theory. As has been stated, you don't get both sets of hit points, only the better set. Might not want to combine a barbarian with a fighter, because the fighter already has a strong HP and doesn't need the D12. It asks players which classes have the best natural synergy bonuses, and which classes can be unstoppable together. It isn't about you getting another set of 21 Class levels to complement the set you already have, because the point of that was to get where you did, working best off of the skills of one class. It's about asking which two classes together will produce the best combinations to getting to 21st level.

P.S. -Anyone out there played a Gestalt game with Vows of Peace or Nonviolence?

 

[SidusLupus]

A 21st level gestalt is not equivalent to a 42nd character. A regular 42nd character will utterly stomp a 21 gestalt.

A gestalt is not double level in any way shape or form.

Also, you could retroactively make people gestalt, but that would be rather silly because it would change too many character mechanics. Gestalt is assumed to be that way from the beginning. As it was said before.. either everyone is or isnt.

It seems like you're hung up on the concept that in order to level you have to go visit someone to train you. That may have been true in older editions but is no longer the case now. When you have the exp you level, and atleast in my game is assumed that's what the character does in the downtime.

 

[jester47]

I thought they were simply made so if the gaming group was small you wouldn't have holes in the party. They are simply characters with main character syndrome. I have an image of Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas. Aragorn is a Fighter/Ranger, Gimli is a Fighter/Barbarian and Legolas is a Ranger/Rogue. Its a mechanic intended for play groups that have limited people. One of the problems I think I see in your misunderstanding of the classes is that you do not seem to be separating the mechanics from the story of the campaign. To cite your example of the Forgotten Realms: There is nothing special about the characters, they are just people that have raining in both fields that are really good at what they do. Some would just assume that they were like any other character that multiclasses. Gestalt is nt some thing like Spellfire. It has no presence in the campaign setting. Just like a character never says "Ah, Merlin the 15th level wizard is about to level up" no character in a campaign knows who is a ranger or barbarian. Similarly there is no Gestalt "ability" to be gained or lost. So the bad guys wont wonder what it is, because it does not exist.

There are two types of mechanic:

Pre story structural and post story structural. Pre is the mechani of how things work. These are classes, skill rolls, attack rolls, hit points, character ability scores, movement rules etc. Post is stuff that is in the world that the players can gain and is a mechanic that explains a story element. That is Prestige classes, feats, non-class abilities. These lead over each other a lot

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Actually, I support the Gestalt concept. It seems alright. (I just had to get over my astonishment, since I haven't played in 7 years and all this is new to me.)
I would never retroactively equip any character of mine with gestalt abilities. That's a new concept for new characters, in my opinion.

I guess the most important thing here, for me, is:

I'm back.
I'm back in gaming.
I'm back in D&D, in D&D 3.5.

Edena_of_Neith is back.

 

[Thanee]

But in this case, a set of rules are being used that would have GOTTEN ME LAUGHED OUT OF THE ROOM back in 1990, had I proposed them back then, and the game was more high powered back then.

Oh, that would happen today, too, if you proposed the same thing while playing in a standard campaign.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

With the gestalt rules, this human character - Edena - would have gained 21 free levels in another class of his choice. So, by the standard 3rd Edition rules, he'd be a 42nd level character.

You look at it from the wrong angle.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I know, but I've some catching up to do. Until then, I'm afraid my viewpoint is going to be badly skewed (until recently, I had nothing at all to base a viewpoint of 3.5 on!)

It has been 7 years since I gamed face to face, and I never learned the 3rd edition rules.
Now I have bought the core 3.5 books, and am puzzling them out. I will somehow find a way to obtain the money to buy more books, and then I will have a clearer perspective on things.
Of course, finding a gaming group and playing will help, too!

Yeah, I'm back. I just hope D&D holds together, and I get a chance to play it and enjoy it once more!

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Thanee]

3rd edition is fun, but it's also very different to earlier editions. More modernized.

Bye
Thanee