Would this be as inappropriate as I think?

[TheAuldGrump]

Shh! I said it wasn't important.

I mainly wanted to point out that the trouble was not overly great - and that they complied, unlike a company that I won't name... and did eventually have to destroy stock.

The Auld Grump

 

[TheAuldGrump]

See, I think that would be a dishonest, disgusting tactic to take. I feel actions like that are hostile and unnecessary.

Agreed. I think that a company may be added to my 'do not buy' list. Being 'too sneaky for your own good' means that it is not good for you.

The Auld Grump

 

[Cergorach]

See, I think that would be a dishonest, disgusting tactic to take. I feel actions like that are hostile and unnecessary.

No argument here, i agree with you 100%. If you can't find the decency to give credit where credit is due then... I don't like the person who doesn't! I won't do it (although i'm sneaky enough ;-) But why is Monte doing it? Ignorance or unwillingness?

 

[philreed]

No argument here, i agree with you 100%. If you can't find the decency to give credit where credit is due then... I don't like the person who doesn't! I won't do it (although i'm sneaky enough ;-) But why is Monte doing it? Ignorance or unwillingness?

I can't answer that question since I can only answer for my own actions. But, just because one company chooses one course of action that I disagree with doesn't mean that I should feel justified in doing the same thing.

My job is to produce the type of material I like, for people that enjoy my work, while still following my own personal beliefs in what's the fair and right thing to do.

(Wow, that got preachy fast. Sorry.)

 

[Cergorach]

(Wow, that got preachy fast. Sorry.)

Hella Jullia! Preach on brotha! ;-)

 

[amethal]

I think a title like Star Craft might be self-defeating.

People (like myself) who do not own Spycraft might not recognise the reference, and would be disappointed to buy the product only to find it was not a d20 Future product.

Fans of Spycraft would look at it, realise it wasn't by AEG and that it appeared to be a sneaky attempt to cash in on AEG's trademarks, and refuse to buy it on principle.

In an ideal world, if you come up with a great idea for Spycraft, True 20 or anything else, the copyright owners would be only too happy for you to publish it, and place prominently on the cover "fully compatible with product x from company y (and by the way you need to buy that to get full use form this book)".

What bothers me about the True 20 situation is that if you produce (say) some True 20 monsters you really need to be able to say that your book is no use without the True 20 rules. Otherwise, you risk conning your customers.

I suppose it depends how difficult and expensive it is to obtain a True 20 licence, something I'll never know ....

I would hope that a company like Ronin Arts, with a reputation for making high quality products, could easily get a blanket licence to produce whatever they want.

 

[philreed]

I would hope that a company like Ronin Arts, with a reputation for making high quality products, could easily get a blanket licence to produce whatever they want.

Thanks. True20 support is on my schedule as part of the arrangement Ronin Arts has with Green Ronin -- we've already produced three PDFs for Green Ronin and more are in the works.

 

[PJ-Mason]

Better to be an ass and protect your reputation than accomodating and lose it. You want your material associated with True20, then get it right. Do the best you can, and if it's not good enough, learn to do it better.

Their reputation. How would their reputation be harmed by just releasing OGC into the community like everybody else? They thought free use and spreading OGC was great when they were just one of the mooks trying make a living, but now that they are big and powerful (as far as the d20 industry goes), they would much rather prefer a system where they get to control the industry?

It is not Chris' job to make you feel good, it's Chris' job to make sure people see his product as being quality work. You produce crap under the True20 logo it will hurt his reputation, and his sales.

It's not a businessman's job to see that you fulfill your dreams, it's a businessman's job to see you do not ruin his business.

And you need to consider your reputation. You produce crap you won't last long in the business. Chris is giving you a goal, to produce the best you know how, and to improve your work. Your product is of high quality not only will he be more apt to let you use the logo, your stuff will sell.

In short, by setting the standards high he increases the value of the logo, both for himself and for those authorized to use it on their products. But if he lets anyone use it the logo becomes just about worthless.

Mason, Chris is not out to stop you from using the True20 logo, he's out to make sure you earn the right to use the True20 logo.

So it just boils down to snobbery and not greed? Great. Wow, i guess these companies are lucky WOTC didn't try to censor their use of the SRD and didn't charge them a royalty fee to use the D20 logo. Awesome way to contribute to the community! :\

I must be incredibly naive. Sucks to be me.

My vote has definitely changed since the beginning of this thread. Hope i don't get banned for this post.

 

[mythusmage]

Their reputation. How would their reputation be harmed by just releasing OGC into the community like everybody else? They thought free use and spreading OGC was great when they were just one of the mooks trying make a living, but now that they are big and powerful (as far as the d20 industry goes), they would much rather prefer a system where they get to control the industry?

When was I talking about OGC alone?

So it just boils down to snobbery and not greed? Great. Wow, i guess these companies are lucky WOTC didn't try to censor their use of the SRD and didn't charge them a royalty fee to use the D20 logo. Awesome way to contribute to the community! :\

When was I talking about the OGC alone?

I must be incredibly naive. Sucks to be me.

My vote has definitely changed since the beginning of this thread. Hope i don't get banned for this post.

I don't recall being negative, self defeating, and missing the point ever getting someone banned. Usually takes being down right rude and engaging in personal attacks.

Mason, if you don't want to try living up to somebody's expectations that's your business, but don't expect me to sympathize. Use Green Ronin's OGC all you want, I expect they'll have no problem with it. But using their True20 logo? That's another matter. If you don't think you're good enough to perform to their standards, then don't write anything for True20.

That's my advice. What you do with it is entirely your responsibility.

 

[PJ-Mason]

When was I talking about OGC alone?
When was I talking about the OGC alone?

When was i? If ALL they were doing is releasing OGC, i wouldn't have said a darn thing. But this license and their OGC is darn well linked and i think to say otherwise is shading the issue.

I don't recall being negative, self defeating, and missing the point ever getting someone banned. Usually takes being down right rude and engaging in personal attacks.

Nice. Self-defeating? Maybe self-deluding. But not in the way that you think, i'm sure. If i'm missing the point, i have plenty of company.

You're missing my point. Intentionally or not, i can't tell. Maybe i'm not being clear, which is very possible. I am not saying they are forcing, aggresively anyway, anyone to do anything. I know it, you know it, and everybody reading this thread knows it. But it just ain't that simple. By creating a license so that people can use their OGC "officially" it is an obvious attempt to control the use of their material. Anyone not using their TrueD20/Spycraft/Mcdonalds trademark is going to be out in the cold if they don't use the trademark and submit to X companies censorship. I know it, you know it, and everybody reading this thread knows it.

THATS why i think this thread was started, to see if people thought it was cool to side step the trademark and how it might even be done and maintain some sort of fuzzy feeling. Which, at this point, i think is apparently entirely uneeded. At first i thought, heck no that ain't right. Now i'm thinking, hey if they aren't playing by the spirit of the OGL, only the letter of it, why the heck should i? If its about business and grabbing onto everything you can, then don't you dare claim foul when i do the same thing. Ya know?

I don't happen to think that is cool or in any represents what the OGC community could or should be about. I don't know if i believe its Elitsim, or greed, or what the heck now. I just know that i think its ugly. So i am saying so. You have every right to think i'm wrong of course, just don't expect me to agree.

At least when WOTC released their trademark for use, the only stipulation (that i could see)was that they didn't get left out in the cold (Ie, you needed to help them sell core books). Even then you could use the OGL and actually leave them out in the cold (you can debate how cold that is of course. I doubt WOTC gives much a care what any of us do business wise. No one else is in their league).