Tsyr
Explorer
Darkness: I'm quite happy with the dictionary definition of kidnap, actualy. And it seems to fit here too:
I consider kidnapping one of the three Major Crimes a person can commit against another human being: Murder, Rape, and Kidnapping.
I do not think kidnapping can ever be "non-evil". I think that it can, under extreme circumstances, be justified, but it's always an evil act. And when I say extreme, I do mean extreme. This situation was nowhere near extreme enough to justify it. It wasn't even in the same country as extreme enough.
Now see, I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that good people can commit evil acts. It's one of the things that makes situations like war and violence so mentaly... well... flavorfull, in a game anyways, and so terrible IRL. And I do agree that an evil act can be justified with a greater good. But to me, the act itself is still evil.
And to me it's telling that, at every chance they had to do the right thing, this group did the wrong thing. Instead of parley, or offering to post bond, or just leaving, or just a good-old-fashioned jail break, they take a hostage. Instead of, when the girl got her gag off, saying to themselves "Oh well, this stupid idea didn't work" and throwing themselves on the mercy the law, they clobbered here. Instead of just holding a hand over her mouth. And instead of just clobbering her, they hit her with a big-arse peice of metal (even ignoring the fact it's a SWORD for a minute, it's still as deadly as a crowbar, even if you don't hit with the sharp side of the blade).
Stupid? Yup. But as I put forth above someplace, I think that in a person's moment of stupidity they reveal alot about themselves. When they don't stop to think things through with all the social norm filters slapped on, they tend to revert to more or less their "essential nature".
As to this:
No, neither do I. I think, however, that there are some core laws that ethicly and moraly always apply, however, regardless of the situation. Breaking into someones home to take stuff for no reason other than your own gain is generaly a no-no, for example. It's just common decency. Turn the tables and ask if you would want people breaking into YOUR home and taking stuff? No? Then you might wanna think twice before you do it. Same with kidnapping, rape, murder, etc. I don't think anyone, even an adventurer, even with that damnedable "PC" tattoo on their forhead, should be allowed to break these and run around killing, raping, kidnapping, and robbing people with total impunity. When the PC is forced in that direction by outside circumstances, it should be a well-thought out act on the PCs part, and if they aren't evil, it should be the absolute last thing that they could possibly try to accomplish a greater good, when all other options have been tried and failed.
Now, you might get the idea that my games must be pretty angst-filled or something. They aren't. My players are just as capeable of being bloodthirsty as any other players, and so am I for that matter. They can enjoy slaughtering a hoard of orcs in the same way any other group can. But when they DO slaughter a hoard of orcs, you can be sure they have more justification than "they are orcs!", such as the orcs being a group of raiders that have been raiding a town and carrying off young girls or something. And you can be sure that someone, some where, has tried other options before adventurers were called in.
And given the nature of orcs (And, for that matter, a number of other demi human races) there are rarely NOT places the adventurers can find work. And when things seem peaceful? Well that's when the really fun stuff starts. Mystery, deception, exploring, etc.
I consider kidnapping one of the three Major Crimes a person can commit against another human being: Murder, Rape, and Kidnapping.
I do not think kidnapping can ever be "non-evil". I think that it can, under extreme circumstances, be justified, but it's always an evil act. And when I say extreme, I do mean extreme. This situation was nowhere near extreme enough to justify it. It wasn't even in the same country as extreme enough.
Now see, I'm perfectly comfortable with the idea that good people can commit evil acts. It's one of the things that makes situations like war and violence so mentaly... well... flavorfull, in a game anyways, and so terrible IRL. And I do agree that an evil act can be justified with a greater good. But to me, the act itself is still evil.
And to me it's telling that, at every chance they had to do the right thing, this group did the wrong thing. Instead of parley, or offering to post bond, or just leaving, or just a good-old-fashioned jail break, they take a hostage. Instead of, when the girl got her gag off, saying to themselves "Oh well, this stupid idea didn't work" and throwing themselves on the mercy the law, they clobbered here. Instead of just holding a hand over her mouth. And instead of just clobbering her, they hit her with a big-arse peice of metal (even ignoring the fact it's a SWORD for a minute, it's still as deadly as a crowbar, even if you don't hit with the sharp side of the blade).
Stupid? Yup. But as I put forth above someplace, I think that in a person's moment of stupidity they reveal alot about themselves. When they don't stop to think things through with all the social norm filters slapped on, they tend to revert to more or less their "essential nature".
As to this:
No, neither do I. I think, however, that there are some core laws that ethicly and moraly always apply, however, regardless of the situation. Breaking into someones home to take stuff for no reason other than your own gain is generaly a no-no, for example. It's just common decency. Turn the tables and ask if you would want people breaking into YOUR home and taking stuff? No? Then you might wanna think twice before you do it. Same with kidnapping, rape, murder, etc. I don't think anyone, even an adventurer, even with that damnedable "PC" tattoo on their forhead, should be allowed to break these and run around killing, raping, kidnapping, and robbing people with total impunity. When the PC is forced in that direction by outside circumstances, it should be a well-thought out act on the PCs part, and if they aren't evil, it should be the absolute last thing that they could possibly try to accomplish a greater good, when all other options have been tried and failed.
Now, you might get the idea that my games must be pretty angst-filled or something. They aren't. My players are just as capeable of being bloodthirsty as any other players, and so am I for that matter. They can enjoy slaughtering a hoard of orcs in the same way any other group can. But when they DO slaughter a hoard of orcs, you can be sure they have more justification than "they are orcs!", such as the orcs being a group of raiders that have been raiding a town and carrying off young girls or something. And you can be sure that someone, some where, has tried other options before adventurers were called in.
And given the nature of orcs (And, for that matter, a number of other demi human races) there are rarely NOT places the adventurers can find work. And when things seem peaceful? Well that's when the really fun stuff starts. Mystery, deception, exploring, etc.
] game of victorian/renaissance dreams and fairytales. 
