Would you be satisifed with d20 as your only RPG? [Ties into RyanD's blog entry.]
- Thread starter JVisgaitis
- Start date
Wil
First Post
JVisgaitis said:
From my experience, most players do not really care what they play system-wise, unless it is too complicated for their preference or just really rubs them the wrong way. They do care about the game itself - you won't get someone who is not fond of science-fiction to play a science-fiction game.
As for me, I run games. I don't run d20, don't care for it and thus I would not be satisfied if d20 was my only option. In fact, if faced with a group only willing to play d20 I would opt to not run at all, although I would happily play a d20 game (since I fall into the category of not caring what I play in terms of system).
EDIT: And to throw a relevant quote in, "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
Nope. I don't even play D20 now so this one was easy to answer. 
D20? No.
OGL? Maybe. That certainly wouldn't include some of my favorite games but I could probably come close to mimicking them with an OGL system.
There are a few games that I could probably play for the rest of my life without any other options and still be happy with them, but none of them are D20/OGL. All of them were published pre-1987.
OGL? Maybe. That certainly wouldn't include some of my favorite games but I could probably come close to mimicking them with an OGL system.
There are a few games that I could probably play for the rest of my life without any other options and still be happy with them, but none of them are D20/OGL. All of them were published pre-1987.
Wombat
First Post
The moment back in the 1970s I was offered an option that wasn't D&D (Traveller, RuneQuest, etc.), I fell away from D&D. I only came back with 3e because people told me what an improvement it was. Yes, it was vastly improved, but it still wasn't enough for me.
There is other systems that could work as the One And Only System for me -- BRP and Over the Edge spring immediately to mind.
It is not that I hate D&D. Heck, it was my first game and I played it from the introduction of 3e until about a year ago, but it has never been my favourite.
I many ways it is a matter of emphasis. D&D still shows its wargaming roots. D&D started out as cobbled set of rules to tack onto a set of miniatures rules (Chainmail -- heck, the second printing of the yellow-cover edition, which I had, had cheap fantasy rules included). In many ways, D&D has gone back to its roots -- the emphasis on miniatures, the micromanagement of tactics, the notion that many non-combat spells simply aren't worth it. D&D is first and foremost about fighting things.
I prefer games where combat exists, but there is more of a cost, especially a permanent cost. In RuneQuest you lose limbs rather appallingly and permanently. In Over The Edge or Traveller a single hit can take you out. Due to this, characters are less wildly enthusiastic to simply battle everything that moves.
I got into rpgs to get away from wargames. Since D&D is essentially a remodelled wargame, it will never be my favourite game.
Do I hate it? No. Would I play it again? Yes. Is it my favourite? No, not by a long shot.
There is other systems that could work as the One And Only System for me -- BRP and Over the Edge spring immediately to mind.
It is not that I hate D&D. Heck, it was my first game and I played it from the introduction of 3e until about a year ago, but it has never been my favourite.
I many ways it is a matter of emphasis. D&D still shows its wargaming roots. D&D started out as cobbled set of rules to tack onto a set of miniatures rules (Chainmail -- heck, the second printing of the yellow-cover edition, which I had, had cheap fantasy rules included). In many ways, D&D has gone back to its roots -- the emphasis on miniatures, the micromanagement of tactics, the notion that many non-combat spells simply aren't worth it. D&D is first and foremost about fighting things.
I prefer games where combat exists, but there is more of a cost, especially a permanent cost. In RuneQuest you lose limbs rather appallingly and permanently. In Over The Edge or Traveller a single hit can take you out. Due to this, characters are less wildly enthusiastic to simply battle everything that moves.
I got into rpgs to get away from wargames. Since D&D is essentially a remodelled wargame, it will never be my favourite game.
Do I hate it? No. Would I play it again? Yes. Is it my favourite? No, not by a long shot.
Lalato
Adventurer
Honestly, to those that like to pretend they're not playing d20 when they play d20 variants like True20, Iron Heroes, etc... come off it already. You're playing d20... it might be variant or rules-light, but the core of the system is d20. I don't mean to upset anyone by saying this, just one of those things I find annoying.
That said, I've played a lot of d20 and variants (D&D, d20 Modern, Spycraft, Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved). I think d20 has served my gaming needs well, and I could see myself playing nothing else and being very happy.
I've also played some other systems that I rather enjoyed (Traveller, HeroQuest, Exalted), but none of them would serve me as well as d20 and its variants. Like Ryan noted, I just want to play. Learning a new system is interesting and fun, but playing is a gazillion times better.
--sam
That said, I've played a lot of d20 and variants (D&D, d20 Modern, Spycraft, Iron Heroes, Arcana Evolved). I think d20 has served my gaming needs well, and I could see myself playing nothing else and being very happy.
I've also played some other systems that I rather enjoyed (Traveller, HeroQuest, Exalted), but none of them would serve me as well as d20 and its variants. Like Ryan noted, I just want to play. Learning a new system is interesting and fun, but playing is a gazillion times better.
--sam
Psion
Adventurer
Sure, if you don't merely define D20 to be "bearing the d20 logo". Spycraft 2.0 no longer bears the logo, but is close enough functionally, without delving too deeply into the point buy world. I could be happy playing just D&D, Spycraft 2.0, D20 modern/future, Traveller d20, and Grim Tales for a long time and covering most game topics I am interested in. Not that if the mood struck me, I wouldn't try a decent non-d20 game if the opportunity arose.
There are a few things out there that I feel D20 cannot be made to handle well, but I rarely play those sorts of games anymore. (I feel D20 as-is doesn't handle supers well, but I haven't had the itch to play supers in a long time.)
I picked up a new version of an old favorite game -- FUDGE -- and soon came to realize I am much more comfortable with the tighter construction of the d20 system. Many games of old I enjoy I probably wouldn't care to go back to, except, perhaps, MegaTraveller.
What players know and can use is more important than niggly bits about the system; how players relate to the system and their familiarity too it is paramount. Any system you are new too has an time investment attached to it. For short term games, it's really not worth the time to train the players and spend time in suboptimal play while doing so.
Some systems some players just don't grok... I've had players that have had problems with HERO and Rolemaster. I would run hero if the whole group got it, but I generally can't rely on that happening, whereas it's a pretty safe bet for d20.
There are a few things out there that I feel D20 cannot be made to handle well, but I rarely play those sorts of games anymore. (I feel D20 as-is doesn't handle supers well, but I haven't had the itch to play supers in a long time.)
I picked up a new version of an old favorite game -- FUDGE -- and soon came to realize I am much more comfortable with the tighter construction of the d20 system. Many games of old I enjoy I probably wouldn't care to go back to, except, perhaps, MegaTraveller.
What players know and can use is more important than niggly bits about the system; how players relate to the system and their familiarity too it is paramount. Any system you are new too has an time investment attached to it. For short term games, it's really not worth the time to train the players and spend time in suboptimal play while doing so.
Some systems some players just don't grok... I've had players that have had problems with HERO and Rolemaster. I would run hero if the whole group got it, but I generally can't rely on that happening, whereas it's a pretty safe bet for d20.
Last edited:
WhimsyTheFae
Explorer
No offense taken. If I would have said, "Yes, because I play True20", then someone would have come in and said something to the effect of, "... come off it already. You're not really playing d20..."Lalato said:
I happened to choose the side that annoys you, rather the side that annoys someone else.
JVisgaitis
Explorer
diaglo said:
LOL! I was waiting for it and figured it would be you...
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