D&D 5E Would you buy a Dark Sun setting book for 5e?

[Maxperson]

Nah, Tigger would just spam defiler spells until it was a hundred acre desert.

Because that's what a Tigger does best?

 

[TwoSix]

Because that's what a Tigger does best?

The wonderful thing about Tiggers
Is that Tiggers serve all dragon kings!

 

[DammitVictor]

Exactly. 2e Dark Sun felt like a separate game that was forced to use AD&D mechanics, while 4e felt like a D&D world with a very specific theme.

But it comes down, in the end, to what you want Dark Sun to be. Is it merely another setting for D&D, or a radical reinvention of the game?

Point blank, I want every official D&D setting to be as radical as Dark Sun was. While I do appreciate the subtle differences between the Radiant Triangle settings and Eberron... I don't understand why D&D needs to have four separate "pseudomedieval fantasy kitchen sink" settings. I would never suggest that any of those four be cut off from official support... like they practically already have been... but I don't want to be sitting here in a couple of years wondering why D&D needs five separate pseudomedieval fantasy kitchen sink settings while settings that actually offer something else are either dying on the vine or being homogenized to the point you can just drag and drop them into any of the others.

 

[Remathilis]

Point blank, I want every official D&D setting to be as radical as Dark Sun was. While I do appreciate the subtle differences between the Radiant Triangle settings and Eberron... I don't understand why D&D needs to have four separate "pseudomedieval fantasy kitchen sink" settings. I would never suggest that any of those four be cut off from official support... like they practically already have been... but I don't want to be sitting here in a couple of years wondering why D&D needs five separate pseudomedieval fantasy kitchen sink settings while settings that actually offer something else are either dying on the vine or being homogenized to the point you can just drag and drop them into any of the others.

At that point, you begin the problem TSR had; D&D was a collection of numerous product lines that canibalized thier own audience. A radically mechanically different Dark Sun is of no use to me. A wildly different Eberron that doesn't work with my other supplements requires them to support that setting with it's own compatible supplements. You get competing incompatible product lines that eventually lose money. The lesson WotC learned from TSR is to play it safe and try to keep things compatible rather than every setting it's open mini-game.

 

[DammitVictor]

Hence why I don't trust WotC to "update" these settings without ruining them, and why I have very little interest in WotC doing so beyond the fact that I will, obviously, buy whatever they do release for the handful of AD&D settings I still care about.

It's only fracturing the fanbase when you have entire product lines dedicated to each separate setting, though. Considering that WotC barely has an entire product line for the game itself, I don't think putting out 1-3 radically different products for each setting would lead to having separate camps only buying a small fraction of WotC's output... or represent such an onerous investment that fans wouldn't consider at least the main book for most of them.

I bought Eberron even though it isn't really my jam, and I bought Ravnica even though I'm pretty sure I'd given up on MTG by the time those sets were released... because they were something different and something I might cannibalize for my own homebrews in a way that the Radiant Triangle or Nentir Vale or Golarion never would be.

 

[Remathilis]

I think we might be discussing two different facets here.

Setting wise, I think there is room to explore areas beyond genetic fantasy settings like Faerun and Exandria. WotC has dipped it's toe into this both with the MTG settings and Eberron to a degree, and there is plenty of space for expansion into S&S (Dark Sun), dark fantasy (Ravenloft), planetary romance (Spelljammer) and weird fantasy (Planescape). Just to name a few.

Mechanically though, they should be more reserved to keep a balance and promote cross-use. For example, imagine if Dark Sun gave every PC a free psionics feat at first level. Imagine every option in Dark Sun (like subclasses and races) were built to take that into account. They would be incompatible with other settings not using that free feat rule. They may be too strong or too weak without it. You couldn't freely mix those options (such as using thri-kreen on Faerun) without hotpatching it. It would make Dark Sun its own island apart from other settings, and if every setting did that, eventually you'd end up with a fractured line of mini settings rather than a unified D&D system.

(I say this as an Eberron fan who realized how much of 3e Eberron was dependant on action points and how much couldn't be adapted without them.)

So if you want setting diversity, I'm all for it. If you want radical mechanical diversity, I'm less so.

 

[TwoSix]

Mechanically though, they should be more reserved to keep a balance and promote cross-use. For example, imagine if Dark Sun gave every PC a free psionics feat at first level. Imagine every option in Dark Sun (like subclasses and races) were built to take that into account. They would be incompatible with other settings not using that free feat rule. They may be too strong or too weak without it. You couldn't freely mix those options (such as using thri-kreen on Faerun) without hotpatching it. It would make Dark Sun its own island apart from other settings, and if every setting did that, eventually you'd end up with a fractured line of mini settings rather than a unified D&D system.

I guess I'm not seeing how changing the setting options would make the race and class options somehow unusable. I don't see how a free feat at 1st level would affect how the races or classes or subclasses were designed.

I mean, I give out a free feat to my players at character creation. I haven't felt the need to change anything about a race or class because of that.

Now, if they did something like "Half-giants get a +4 Str, +4 Con, and +2 Wis because Dark Sun" or "All fighting classes start with Extra Attack (2) at 1st level because Dark Sun", then sure, that's obviously problematic. But I don't think "diversity in mechanics" and "interoperability with existing material" are mutually exclusive. The fact it COULD be done poorly isn't evidence it WOULD be done poorly.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

At that point, you begin the problem TSR had; D&D was a collection of numerous product lines that canibalized thier own audience. A radically mechanically different Dark Sun is of no use to me. A wildly different Eberron that doesn't work with my other supplements requires them to support that setting with it's own compatible supplements. You get competing incompatible product lines that eventually lose money. The lesson WotC learned from TSR is to play it safe and try to keep things compatible rather than every setting it's open mini-game.

I thought that the lesson they learned was not to sign terrible contracts, and combine that with terrible management that makes you print stuff you can't sale to make illusory money ... that will disappear when the stuff you can't sale gets returned.

TSR was a mess, but it wasn't because of the settings. Oh, another lesson? Have a wildly profitable and addictive card game that causes people to shovel money at you.

Dark Sun! When the settings get weird, the weird turn pro!

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I will buys. Odds are low that I'll actually get to play it, but I enjoy reading setting books and will loot it for my own settings.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

The 4e book gave racial options for dragonborn (dray), dwarf, eladrin, elf, goliath (half-giant), half-elf, halfling, human, and tiefling, as well as full write-ups for mul and thri-kreen. It also provides a "minor race" status (check with DM) to genasi, kalashtar, and minotaur. It also says the following races are extinct unless the DM says otherwise: deva, gnome, kobold, ogre, orc, and troll. All others are unmentioned.

I am not really fond of the 4e treatment of races, especially for dragonborn and goliath. For those two, they just took dray and half-giants, which had their own distinct look, and just replaced them with two races they already had rules for. Sure they said "Ah goliath are half-giants!" but they look like grey-skinned goliath and not the far bulkier tan half-giants, so it felt more like a mod than real Dark Sun.

I'd prefer if they made dray at least a subrace of dragonborn, and I'd prefer if half-giants were really just their own race.

Not sure if I'd be happy or not with tieflings and eladrin added back in. To me they just felt like they were added to tick a box and weren't really "Dark Sun-ified," but I don't really think DS breaks down if they are in either.