Would you buy "d20 Future"

[trancejeremy]

Well, I've already bought the Starfarer's Handbook for Dragonstar (and will buy the GG & Imperial Supply), and Fading Suns d20, so I probably wouldn't. I'll probably also get Traveller d20, but only because I like Traveller a lot.


Personally, I think WOTC should have tried to make D20 Modern more than just 'Modern', but also post-modern. Kinda like Alternity's scope, only in reverse. I think that was mostly a SF game, but also had a modern world setting.

 

[Ranger REG]

Quite frankly, no. Better invest in Traveller d20, Dragonstar, or even Fading Suns. I found Star Wars d20 a rather poor game and currently, I am not have much expectatives about d20 modern or sci-fi. I think that WotC d20 developing team is in the wrong way introducing VP/WP and, principally, using defense and hit points in the same game. As such, I don't really have much reasons to look forward their new offerings.

Would you like to point out what they're doing wrong?

I assume you have reviewed the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook, which is due out this month, correct?

 

[Horacio]

I think that with Dragonstar, Fading Suns d20, Traveller d20 and Star Wars Revised d20 I will have enough for my d20 Future for years...

 

[Ron]

Would you like to point out what they're doing wrong?

I assume you have reviewed the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook, which is due out this month, correct?

I haven't the opportunity of giving a look in the SW revised book yet. However, I expect it to be a great improvement from the rather poor first edition.

My problem with current WotC design choices regarding most d20 products is, one way or another, related to hit points. In D&D (and CoCd20), hit points measures your capacity of absorving damage and also your ability to avoid damage. In some games this is divided in Wounds and Vitality points. I don't think the division is a great issue. I don't like it, but that's more a question of taste. The ability of avoiding damage (or vitality points) is the explanation why hit points increase with levels. So far so good. The problem is that most new d20 games, such as SW, WoT, and the upcoming modern d20, also introduces the defense score. The defense score is partially redudant with hit points, as it covers the same subject of vitality points.

As you can see, number of hit points is a highly abstract stat. It may be divided in two components: number of wound and vitality points. Defense is redundant with the number of vitality points component. Thus, if you use defense in your game, you should not allow hit points to grow with levels. If defense is used with wound points alone, the system is fine. Otherwise, it's broken.

It appears that defense was introduced as a way to incentive characters not to use armour. The problem is that wearing armour is very useful in combat, in all eras. The real issue with armour is that you cannot use it all the time: it restricts your movement, it's uncomfortable and would probably wears out the users (perhaps subdual damage could be given after long use), and finally, using armour is menacing and could be social unacceptable in many regions (as in CoC d20).

My greatest fear is that the genius at WotC will think of introducing these concepts in the next revision of D&D.

 

[Ranger REG]

Yeah, but in Star Wars the heroes are not wearing armor, nor find armor useful, and still managed to survive the gunfights.

 

[Ron]

Yeah, but in Star Wars the heroes are not wearing armor, nor find armor useful, and still managed to survive the gunfights.

SW doesn't try to keep close to reality, as much of decipted in the movies are artistic license. You sure noticed that most villains use armour, generally covering their faces, while heroes doesn't. This improves character recognition.

Also, there is little reason to the heroes wear armour in most movies. As far as I can remember, only during the battle at the force field generator in Andor, during the RotJ, we should expect Hans and cia to use armor.

SWd20 could done a better job by preventing the use of armour through social limitations. After all, people would not thrust someone wearing armour in the streets.

 

[Ranger REG]

SW doesn't try to keep close to reality, as much of decipted in the movies are artistic license.

So what you're saying that Wizards should NOT emulate that style from the films and incorporate that into the RPG?

Also, there is little reason to the heroes wear armour in most movies. As far as I can remember, only during the battle at the force field generator in Andor, during the RotJ, we should expect Hans and cia to use armor.

They should, but they didn't.

SWd20 could done a better job by preventing the use of armour through social limitations. After all, people would not thrust someone wearing armour in the streets.

Oh, that is pretty much a given. It just doesn't warrant a game mechanic for that "social limitation."

In fact, you would find most sci-fi shows do not have the use of armor unless it is warranted (e.g., Andromeda's impending battle with the Magog at the end of season 1).

 

[fenzer]

...I wanna see the kind of stuff Alternity had, done in D20.

I absolutely agree. I would be all over something like that like white on rice.

I plan on buying d20 modern and would be interested in a sci-fi spin off.

I must say that T20 has my interest.

 

[Ron]

So what you're saying that Wizards should NOT emulate that style from the films and incorporate that into the RPG?

I'm sure they should. I am just saying that their design choices weren't good.

Oh, that is pretty much a given. It just doesn't warrant a game mechanic for that "social limitation."

In fact, you would find most sci-fi shows do not have the use of armor unless it is warranted (e.g., Andromeda's impending battle with the Magog at the end of season 1).

So I believe you agree with me. I don't see any reason to have a rule saying that you cannot use armour in streets. But I would advise the GM to consider people wearing armour to be interpreted as a menace and, thus, calling the attention of the police force. This is all restriction you need about wearing armour.

If Hans doesn't want to wear armour during the attack the Shield Generator, that's his problem. He may be an unsurpassed smuggler, but he's still lacking as a soldier.

The point is that D20 Modern or Sci-Fi should cover much more than the Star Wars Sci-Fantasy setting. However, they are planning to use bad design choices in their more generic (setting wise) games. I don't think that this is a good policy. Even if worked in Star Wars, which I think it didn't, I don't like the idea of using mechanics that are inconsistent with the other rules.

 

[NemesisPress]

With Sci-Fi, you can't divorce the setting from the system, so there's no point in trying.

And as for armor in Star Wars. Why would anyone want to wear armor that (as far as the movies go) attracts fire and never once blocks a hit?