D&D General Would you like there to be a new publication of Dark Sun?

Would you like there to be a new publication of Dark Sun?

  • Yes (with or without additional conditions)

    Votes: 88 65.7%
  • No (with or without additional conditions)

    Votes: 46 34.3%

Imaro

Legend
Psionics is still shifted off to the side. It doesn't feel like just another leg on the table to me. Eberron more or less does the "Sarlona is the Psionic continent so the table is as Psionic as many times Sarlona things appear.

Eberron being decades old now also proves my point.
I don't think I'm getting your point around psionics... There is an entire continent along with a mythos for psionics in Eberron. I'm not sure why that would be considered shifted off to the side... its integrated into the setting.

As for Eberron being old... why does that matter if it achieves the goals you are looking for? Otherwise you're just reinventing the wheel.
 

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I don't think I'm getting your point around psionics... There is an entire continent along with a mythos for psionics in Eberron. I'm not sure why that would be considered shifted off to the side... its integrated into the setting.
Because it's literally "off to the side" in Eberron.

Instead of psionics being something that permeates the entire setting, Eberron relegated them to a specific, different continent, with its own weirdness, which didn't really get any details at all until later books originally, and remains very much a side-place rather than one deeply important to the setting.

It's certainly fair to say Eberron isn't hostile to psionics nor attempting to negate them or whatever, but they are very much "off to the side" on a variety of levels. That's part of why it was so easy to make a 5E sourcebook for Eberron even without 5E having much in the way of psionics.

(I should note for the record that I don't think psionics are essential for Dark Sun - weirdness is - it's just psionics are an extremely good way to deliver that. Psionics-as-spells is a bad fit for Dark Sun though because it undermines the entire defiling/preserving theme with Arcane spells - given most "psionic spells" suggested in 5E are spells we originally think of as Arcane spells. If you can just cast all or most of the same spells but a different way, and be equally powerful and essentially using the same mechanics, that doesn't really work. Psionics as something different is what delivers the weird.)
 

Because it's literally "off to the side" in Eberron.

Instead of psionics being something that permeates the entire setting, Eberron relegated them to a specific, different continent, with its own weirdness, which didn't really get any details at all until later books originally, and remains very much a side-place rather than one deeply important to the setting.

It's certainly fair to say Eberron isn't hostile to psionics nor attempting to negate them or whatever, but they are very much "off to the side" on a variety of levels. That's part of why it was so easy to make a 5E sourcebook for Eberron even without 5E having much in the way of psionics.

Psionics in Dark Sun felt inescapable. Not only did you have to endure the scorching heat of Athas but the arduous 2E psionic system as well :)
 

Psionics in Dark Sun felt inescapable. Not only did you have to endure the scorching heat of Athas but the arduous 2E psionic system as well :)
Honestly I feel like the alleged difficulty of the 2E psionics system is the most overhyped shenanigans in D&D history.

All these nerds who were perfectly happy with stuff like THAC0 (including the 1E version) and the unarmed combat table and stuff are pretending like this system is hard to handle? What a weak pretense. Some of you dudes were playing Rolemaster and stuff and trying to front like this is "hard"... pfffft.

Literally the only non-trivial thing about psionics was psionic combat, and that took like, one session to understand properly. Nowadays you'd just print out a cheat sheet or even have it semi-automated by an app.
 

Imaro

Legend
Because it's literally "off to the side" in Eberron.

Instead of psionics being something that permeates the entire setting, Eberron relegated them to a specific, different continent, with its own weirdness, which didn't really get any details at all until later books originally, and remains very much a side-place rather than one deeply important to the setting.

It's certainly fair to say Eberron isn't hostile to psionics nor attempting to negate them or whatever, but they are very much "off to the side" on a variety of levels. That's part of why it was so easy to make a 5E sourcebook for Eberron even without 5E having much in the way of psionics.

(I should note for the record that I don't think psionics are essential for Dark Sun - weirdness is - it's just psionics are an extremely good way to deliver that. Psionics-as-spells is a bad fit for Dark Sun though because it undermines the entire defiling/preserving theme with Arcane spells - given most "psionic spells" suggested in 5E are spells we originally think of as Arcane spells. If you can just cast all or most of the same spells but a different way, and be equally powerful and essentially using the same mechanics, that doesn't really work. Psionics as something different is what delivers the weird.)
Ok so the argument was for a setting that put psionics front and center vs. one that just has them integrated as part of their official lore... Eh, yeah WotC would have to have the rules for psionics done for something like this to work and be created... otherwise you'd have a magic w/psionic clothing setting. In other words its not a setting problem, its a rules/system issue.
 

Ok so the argument was for a setting that put psionics front and center vs. one that just has them integrated as part of their official lore... Eh, yeah WotC would have to have the rules for psionics done for something like this to work and be created... otherwise you'd have a magic w/psionic clothing setting. In other words its not a setting problem, its a rules/system issue.
I concur though I would still say it's 100% legit to describe psionics as "off to the side" in Eberron.
 

The time has come for everyone to just run Dark Sun using some version of RuneQuest or BRP rather than insisting on a complete rewrite of 5e to accommodate the setting's particulars.
 

SteveC

Doing the best imitation of myself
It seems to me that it's way past time for WotC to do a psionics system. I know that there have been a number of attempts at it, and there are some options available now (a friend is playing a Soulknife in our Dragon Heist campaign for instance).

Just doing a quick search on the interwebs, there are already systems out there, just pick one of them if the staff in house don't have the time to make it work.
 

Honestly I feel like the alleged difficulty of the 2E psionics system is the most overhyped shenanigans in D&D history.

All these nerds who were perfectly happy with stuff like THAC0 (including the 1E version) and the unarmed combat table and stuff are pretending like this system is hard to handle? What a weak pretense. Some of you dudes were playing Rolemaster and stuff and trying to front like this is "hard"... pfffft.

Literally the only non-trivial thing about psionics was psionic combat, and that took like, one session to understand properly. Nowadays you'd just print out a cheat sheet or even have it semi-automated by an app.

You make a fair point. I was half joking. But the main issue actually with Psionics from that era, at least from my memory, is there were some overpowered things in it you could get at early level (in fairness this was debated a lot so it isn't like everyone agreed) and it was a whole other system to learn on top of the existing magic system (which probably would haver been a challenge with any new psionic subsystem unless it were especially simple). I think the other aspect of this is its infrequent use. If you weren't playing Dark Sun, in most campaigns psionics only really came up with certain types of monsters. So it was a little like grapple in 3E where its infrequent use meant you looked it up and re-learned it each time (whereas wizard spells were used in every session all the time so it just baked into your brain more). My honest memory of the time was some players loved it, some found it challenging, and GMs were often annoyed by some of the power level spikes in it.

To you point about other aspects of 2E, it certainly wasn't doing anything that unusual in terms of that system. I have no issue with THAC0 and I have no issue (even welcome) different subsystems for unarmed combat, initiative, NWPs, etc. It wasn't a game built around a core mechanic, though the d20 roll was obviously the central thing, you had all these parts of the game that functioned and felt completely different (which I think has the advantage of literally feeling different, and of being easier in terms of designing it to work a particular way-----sometimes the d20+number against+modifier against TN in later editions felt like fitting a square peg in a round hole for certain actions to me.

Actually my biggest 2E pet peeve wasn't psionics, but the skills and powers book (which lots of people loved, but I always found it incredibly hard to incorporate into games as a GM without radically changing how things felt).
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
One thing I thing D&D missed was a good War of the Gods setting. If WOTC would create a setting of Divine vs Psionic vs Arcane vs Elemental/Shadow/Fiendish with Primal and Martials as neutrals, you could really really do a nice Sword and Sandals or Sword and Planet Setting. And it could steal a lot of the cool nonedgy tropes of Dark Sun.
 

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