D&D 5E Would You Rather Have a LE or CN party member?

[aco175]

It depends on the player and how he is playing the character. I have seen many stereotypes and ways that people favor the Evil over the Lawful, or visa-versa. Same with Chaotic and any of the others. I found it best to play it like a movie or TV character. Maybe a corrupt sheriff is LE while a escapee from the loony bin is CN. Other people have their ideas.

I used to play all the PCs with CG alignment since I wanted to be good, but wanted leeway to act a bit outside the law and do some questionable things if needed. I mostly now just play Good, or LG if using the 9 choices. None of the characters were doing much not in line with helping others and saving the day. We never really cheat out the others or fail to release the goblin we said we would.

 

[Lancelot]

Lawful Evil, in my group. I've got several players who regularly go with CN characters, and it's frustrating. An LE character might get another player killed... but a CN character will often end the campaign. My players use the CN alignment for "teh lulz", as the kids sometimes say. Drink from the unknown bubbling fountain, press the red button, rob the NPC patron they're supposed to be working for, break the staff of the magi, etc.

Here's a recent summary of actual behavior at the table. No joke, no exaggeration:

1) "I drink my potion of hill giant strength, then my potion of heroism, then my potion of.... Huh? What? Potion mixing table?!? What's that? Whoa! You mean to say there's a 1% chance one of these becomes permanent!?! Right - this character's whole shtick is now to mix as many potions as possible, as soon as I get them. Yeah, yeah... 15% chance of possible-lethal side-effects... don't care. I'm CN." [kills self and ally with potion explosion several sessions later, which sucked for the other player... also stole and insta-drank every potion he came across, depleting the party of critical resources]

2) 'Yeah, yeah... the other guys can handle the hill giants. I'm getting this chest away from the battle. I know it's heavy! I'm going to spend four rounds lowering it through the shaft in the floor, then we can escape. Sure... the paladin's already down. That's not my problem! I'm CN, remember?" [paladin dies, as does one of the other PCs... and he never does get away with the chest]

3) "Why are you guys negotiating with this [obviously level-inappropriate, but willing to talk, boss monster]? This isn't what a CN character would do. Okay, as my buddies back away slowly, I walk up to the gargantuan death spider and tell it to fix it's attitude. And to show it I mean business, I take out my dagger and put it on the floor in front of me. If I have to pick up that dagger, it's dead. Don't make me pick up my dagger, buddy." [gargantuan death spider makes him eat that dagger, and then proceeds to rampage over his buddies as well]

...and, for the most recent one, which ended our Tomb of Annihilation campaign:

4) "Hells, yeah! I just killed the beholder. And, sure, my buddies are all down. One of them is dead, the other two are bleeding out. But they've only got 1 death box each, and I've got a healing kit... [the other players nod vigorously, relieved] ...eh. I'm playing a wild mage, and I've got this wand of wonder I picked up earlier. The CN thing to do would be to try to use the wand to heal them... [other players start howling protests] ...I point the wand at the fighter and see what happens. If it doesn't heal him, I'll stablize him next round." [rolls a fireball... fighter and nearby cleric both record their 2nd death box for taking damage while fallen, and then... going in initiative order... have to make their own start-of-turn death saves before the wild mage gets to act again. Both fail their saves, and die. Session ends in a hurry to prevent actual physical violence at the table...]

In summary, with my group, I have literally said: "NO CHAOTIC NEUTRAL CHARACTERS" for some campaigns. And yes, I know the behavior above is just bad gaming, and there's nothing forcing a CN character to act with Joker-level insanity, but my group has only one interpretation of CN - and it's terrible.

 

[Oofta]

I don't allow evil characters in my home campaign, so CN. I also have a general rule of don't play a jerk, or someone who is purposely disruptive.

However, CN just means they don't believe in external laws and rules and don't adhere to a code of good or evil. It does not have to mean chaotic insane or really chaotic evil but that's not allowed at my table.

My last cleric was CN - he didn't believe any authority figure should be telling others what to do and everyone should seek their own path. While he never committed any explicitly evil acts, he also wouldn't necessarily go out of his way to do good deed either.

Then again, I think people should use alignment as little or as much as they want. I view it as a general guideline to how the character views the world, not as justification for actions or a straight jacket.

EDIT: If anyone at my table ever says "I'm going to do ___ because I'm ___" we're going to have a talk about what alignment means and revisit the baseline rule in my first paragraph.

 

[Zardnaar]

Lawful Evil, in my group. I've got several players who regularly go with CN characters, and it's frustrating. An LE character might get another player killed... but a CN character will often end the campaign. My players use the CN alignment for "teh lulz", as the kids sometimes say. Drink from the unknown bubbling fountain, press the red button, rob the NPC patron they're supposed to be working for, break the staff of the magi, etc.

Here's a recent summary of actual behavior at the table. No joke, no exaggeration:

1) "I drink my potion of hill giant strength, then my potion of heroism, then my potion of.... Huh? What? Potion mixing table?!? What's that? Whoa! You mean to say there's a 1% chance one of these becomes permanent!?! Right - this character's whole shtick is now to mix as many potions as possible, as soon as I get them. Yeah, yeah... 15% chance of possible-lethal side-effects... don't care. I'm CN." [kills self and ally with potion explosion several sessions later, which sucked for the other player... also stole and insta-drank every potion he came across, depleting the party of critical resources]

2) 'Yeah, yeah... the other guys can handle the hill giants. I'm getting this chest away from the battle. I know it's heavy! I'm going to spend four rounds lowering it through the shaft in the floor, then we can escape. Sure... the paladin's already down. That's not my problem! I'm CN, remember?" [paladin dies, as does one of the other PCs... and he never does get away with the chest]

3) "Why are you guys negotiating with this [obviously level-inappropriate, but willing to talk, boss monster]? This isn't what a CN character would do. Okay, as my buddies back away slowly, I walk up to the gargantuan death spider and tell it to fix it's attitude. And to show it I mean business, I take out my dagger and put it on the floor in front of me. If I have to pick up that dagger, it's dead. Don't make me pick up my dagger, buddy." [gargantuan death spider makes him eat that dagger, and then proceeds to rampage over his buddies as well]

...and, for the most recent one, which ended our Tomb of Annihilation campaign:

4) "Hells, yeah! I just killed the beholder. And, sure, my buddies are all down. One of them is dead, the other two are bleeding out. But they've only got 1 death box each, and I've got a healing kit... [the other players nod vigorously, relieved] ...eh. I'm playing a wild mage, and I've got this wand of wonder I picked up earlier. The CN thing to do would be to try to use the wand to heal them... [other players start howling protests] ...I point the wand at the fighter and see what happens. If it doesn't heal him, I'll stablize him next round." [rolls a fireball... fighter and nearby cleric both record their 2nd death box for taking damage while fallen, and then... going in initiative order... have to make their own start-of-turn death saves before the wild mage gets to act again. Both fail their saves, and die. Session ends in a hurry to prevent actual physical violence at the table...]

In summary, with my group, I have literally said: "NO CHAOTIC NEUTRAL CHARACTERS" for some campaigns. And yes, I know the behavior above is just bad gaming, and there's nothing forcing a CN character to act with Joker-level insanity, but my group has only one interpretation of CN - and it's terrible.

Had something siilar to this. CN Gnome who would always try and push the proverbial "big red button" or would always run away abndoning the party etc.

That player played every character the same, ended up booting them. If someone is stupid and gets themselves killed that is one thing this character was a menace to everyone else and the player basically would not change.

The joke with Rats is he is being called Darth Chuckles. Darth Chuckles was a R2-D2 unit in Star Wars Saga that had either broken his programming or had assassin Droid programming and that droid had a tendency to coup de grace inconvenient prisoners and things like that.

I call him Rats as its his favourite food type. Kinda wanted a Darksun Halfling but it would annoy the other players so eating rats became a thing).

Might also help he is a fighter (urchin) who is basically a Rogue but since I don't have Rogue or Thief written on my character sheet its fine. Even in AD&A my thieves don't steal from the part but that doesn;'t count going ahead scouting due to it being risky and the way xp for gold works in AD&D and how risky it is going off by yourself. Thief may be one of the weaker classes but if you're 2+ levels ahead of anyone else its not to bad. Stealing from the party in that context is not only a bit jackass to do but you're also taking xp off them and transferring it to you or in effect stealing magic you can buy in 3E/4E.

I had the CN tiefling warlock type that did steal form the party but my Paladin was played as a LG naive type who played up the loss of the gold as poor orphans starving as he was donating most of his money to charity, beggers etc. The player doing the stealing was new, thought she would learn eventually but it was 5E so money doesn't matter that much.

 

[Old One Eye]

Depending on the campaign premise, I would be fine with either. Alternatively, either could be inappropriate for a given campaign.

 

[the Jester]

Speaking as a guy playing a LE fighter... LE, every time.

 

[Kurotowa]

There's nothing inherently wrong with either CN or LE as an alignment. Their problem is they're the go-to choice for players who want cover for disruptive or anti-social play behavior. Some people get it into their heads that they want to play one of the complete jerks from a sitcom, not realizing (or not caring) that the character type doesn't work when the party lacks absolute plot armor against all long term consequences. Since those character types typically translate as either the CN "I don't care about your rules, you're not the boss of me" or the LE "I gleefully abuse the letter of the law for personal gain, even when my friends suffer for it" they've acquired their bad repute among many tables.

Which, of course, isn't the only way to play those alignments. For example, CN can just as easily be "Nothing stops me from helping my friends, though the rest of the world can go hang" and LE can be played as "The world is a hard and cruel place, only by enforcing order can society be preserved". If the PC has bonds with the rest of the party and is played with a minimum amount of social grace, there's lot of variations that should be perfectly acceptable.

 

[Harzel]

So good people of ENworld would you want a PC like "Rats" in your party or a CN one?

No.

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

I'm running a 5e Ravenloft campaign; the existing characters are not technically evil in alignment but have committed murder, betrayal of another character etc (and rolled and failed Dark Power Checks). Campaign has not been derailed and is very spicy.

A new player is joining the group - a LE Fallen Aasimar Oath of Conquest Paladin serving the Lawful Evil sect of the Church of Ezra. They believe in torturing and experimenting on evil creatures in order to find their weaknesses and stave off the Apocalypse. Should be fun!

 

[Ymdar]

For the 1st time maybe ever I rolled up an evil PC a few weeks ago. A LE Halfling Champion fighter (just hit level 3) that is an urchin and LE.

I'm roleplaying him with an emphasis on the L part of LE. He tithes 50% of the ill gotten loot to the guild he has just joined (50% of guild jobs not adventuring loot and 50% of anything looted in the Guild territory). Out of whats left he tithes 10% to the Church of Mask but the tithe is 10% of everything he gets.

The one evil thing he has done was he killed a captured guard when the Bard had her back turned. The guard died of "natural causes" because quite naturally a dagger in the throat kills you. The reason was the guard was a witness and the Bard did not disguise herself- Rats did.

Rats is not big on murder and mayhem if he kills its part of the job or to cover tracks, he doesn't particularly enjoy it but he is an urchin and had a rough upbringing. He doesn't steal from his friends and he is almost an accountant in terms of his honesty in recovered loot. If he loots a chest for example out of sight the other PCs will get their share down to the last copper piece.

His eventual goal is probably guild master or similar post. Two players don't care as he is not overtly evil, 1 player has her suspicions due to the guard thing (she thought to check on him) but went along with it due to her ass being on the line so to speak.

So good people of ENworld would you want a PC like "Rats" in your party or a CN one?

Is he a SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR?