Would you Swap 3.5e for Exalted?

[Mark Hope]

Scott, the irony is that they (WW) are basically saying "your current game sucks, try this new one instead". Many folks (me included) feel like a lot of the 4e marketing is saying basically the same thing "3x sucks, try 4x instead". In effect, they're using the same ploy as you folks, only upping the stakes a bit with the swap. (Which, as the little guy, they need to do to get the attention. As you've rightly pointed out - you don't need to do that, even if you were so inclined.)

This.

As far as the "sacrificing" part goes, I'd guess you're one of the last folks here who needs a primer on perceived vs. actual value. They're just making sure that anyone that gets what amounts to a freebie on their part is actually going to attach at least some value to it. Of course, how many folks who get real utility from the PHB are actually going to trade it? For those that do, I don't see it as much of a sacrifice.

I also have the feeling that they are targeting this - to some degree - at folks who may be done with 3.5 anyway and ready/thinking about switching to 4e. "Ditch your old 3.5 PHB and come on over to Exalted instead of 4e." That seemed to me to be implied in the "play Exalted all summer long instead of waiting until August for some other game." Although why August is mentioned escapes me. 4e is coming out in June. Odd.

 

[Mark Hope]

3.5 is a very good system. I enjoyed playing it, but now that I have played 4e, I won't likely go back. We have never said 3.5 sucks, as we have not said any other edition of D&D sucks but we certainly have said it is better. I think the distinction between "better" and "sucks" is huge.

Yes it is huge. In the moderate and restrained world of the internets, however, the perception has arisen that a certain amount of 4e's marketing involved ragging on 3e. Accurate or not, that's how some folks have seen it. WW is riffing on that perception, imho, and to good effect. Is that really ironic? Maybe not. It is pretty funny, though .

 

[Vocenoctum]

I don't dislike it that intensely, but the rules certainly didn't live up to the EPIC, "split mountains in half with your giant anime sword" feel the game seems to be going for. Combat was pretty tedious, tons of dice or not.

We're actually doing an Exalted game to fill the time between the end of last game and the release of 4e. The promotion, IMO, is a waste since it's telling me "get a book right now!" and then saying "In May". I don't think it's a trade either, it's just a marketing ploy to give out free books to give Exalted a boost.

The fact that it's limited to 2500 is where I'm curious. It'd be neat to find a way to see if response overwhelmed the 2500, or if they have 2000 books remaining...

As for the game itself, the core book is a horribly laid out product. Art overall is decent, but individual pieces vary considerably. The rules are overly convoluted and the writing style seems geared to not convey the information in an easy format.

Sidereals was a much easier read, IMO.

If WW is targetting folks who are upset about 4E, why would those same people have any interest in Exalted? Most of the complaints I've seen about 4E have been about the "over the top" powers, odd names, etc. That's pretty much the bread and butter of Exalted.

If White Wolf wanted to help me, they'd offer to trade for some of THEIR old crap. But, it's a marketing ploy to slap at D&D, so there's that. I don't see a "try Exalted 2, trade in Exalted 1" or "try Exalted 2, it's much better than Demon!".

 

[SavageRobby]

We have never said 3.5 sucks, as we have not said any other edition of D&D sucks but we certainly have said it is better. I think the distinction between "better" and "sucks" is huge.

That may be what you believe, and I'm doubly sure that is the official corporate line - but there are a rather large number of folks who have read statements/blogs/articles from various WotC personnel much, much differently. (And I'd assume that most are people smart enough to grock the difference between "better" and "sucks".)

The unfortunate part (well, for your company anyways) is that a fair number of those folks are people who would have been inclined towards 4x, but have been turned off by the "3x sucks, 4x is so much better" negative press.


I'm happy to agree to disagree here. You may think your guys have never said anything remotely like "3x sucks", and thats fine. (Heck, I'd imagine that even if you suspected they did, your job would preclude you from saying so publicly - but that is rampant and completely unfounded speculation on my part.) I'm not trying to convince you either way. You asked about the irony, and I did my best to explain why people have said.

 

[Devin Parker]

No they're not, and you know that's not what they're doing. What they're doing is saying "Dungeon crawl games are dumb and if you play them you're dumb so don't be dumb give us the dumb rulebooks and you can play a cool game instead."

Hasn't that been White Wolf's MO for as long as it's existed?

Pretty much. I like WW's games well enough, but their "Hipper-Than-Thou" posturing is really tiresome, especially ten years + down the road. Gamers are gamers.

As for the offer itself, I voted 'No'. If they were just giving the books away, I'd be interested, because: hey, free gamebook! I'd be interested in looking it over and giving it a try, even though I'm not into the anime-style Cleave A Mountain With Your Giant Sword thing. So, asking me to sacrifice something in my library in order to get a copy of it won't sell me.

Even if it does suddenly transform me from a Geek into Super Saiyan Socially Superior RPG Geek Zeta!

 

[Relique du Madde]

4e is better than 3.5. 3.0. 2nd, AD&D, Basic D&D, OD&D, Chainmail ... there I said it.

<SNIP>.

3.5 is a very good system. I enjoyed playing it, but now that I have played 4e, I won't likely go back. We have never said 3.5 sucks, as we have not said any other edition of D&D sucks but we certainly have said it is better. I think the distinction between "better" and "sucks" is huge.

If 3.5 is a good system and 3.5 doesn't suck, then why do you insisted that you not likely going to go back to using ever again (even for the sake of laughs and nostalgia)? Is it because officially you can not since that might dissuade people from upgrading?

I understand you are the WoTC rep and you are may not allowed to say that you would play 3.x after 4e is released, but to me many here what you said could easily be taken as "3.x sucks. I will never play it again since 4e is the win. So join use at WoTC and upgrade!"

 

[jdrakeh]

This has nothing to do with the issue I had. I just say if your going to sample a product don't ask for a customer to make some personal sacrifice.

Except that this isn't a product sample in that it's an incomplete 'taster' of some kind, akin to the dixie cup full of soda in a Coke taste test. It's a complete product being offered. A 100% playable game. Also, it's worth pointing out that the trade old X for new Y has been used in hundreds of radio station promotions over the years. I can notably recall one where if you traded in your old Station X t-shirt, you got a new Station Y t-shirt -- and you got to see the DJ soak your old t-shirt in gasoline, after which he torched it in a giant oil-drum.

 

[Maggan]

Except that this isn't a product sample in that it's an incomplete 'taster' of some kind, akin to the dixie cup full of soda in a Coke taste test. It's a complete product being offered. A 100% playable game. Also, it's worth pointing out that the trade old X for new Y has been used in hundreds of radio station promotions over the years. I can notably recall one where if you traded in your old Station X t-shirt, you got a new Station Y t-shirt -- and you got to see the DJ soak your old t-shirt in gasoline, after which he torched it in a giant oil-drum.

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the whole world has to be prepared to do the same with their products, or their marketing. There are plenty of marketing stunts that I abhor. Just because someone else are doing them, and are in their right to do so, doesn't mean that I have to accept that as good marketing for me and my products.

/M

 

[jdrakeh]

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean that everyone in the whole world has to be prepared to do the same with their products, or their marketing.

No. Luckily I never stated or implied such a thing. I only stated that the practice is not uncommon and the product being offered is not some kind of a crippleware sampler. There are a lot of people making assertions (rather pointed and nasty assertions) to the contrary. In short, there are a lot of mountains being built out of molehills here.

 

[diaglo]

nah. i'm gonna let them collect dust in my collection.