Writer's Pay

[Nellisir]

Something else to consider is that contracts are signed and agreements finalized well before the publisher actually sees your 100 word feat. So he has to make his payment decisions based solely on what he knows of the individual's past works. The odds are goodr that SKR's feat won't need much editing or improvement, as based on previous works. However, if nobody knows your name, they have to contract on the assumption that your stuff will need editing. If that proves not to be the case, and you build up a body of work that proves it, than you'll find yourself getting paid more.

Basically, you're being contracted for the anticipated value of your word count, and publishers can't anticipate an unknown nearly as well as someone with an established rep.

Then we must not be reading the same open calls, because the ones I see say "send us something, and we'll accept it after we read it". I sent material to Bastion Press (not what prompted this inquiry, btw), and I haven't seen an acceptance, let alone a contract.

 

[Nellisir]

A good example of why there is a difference in pay can be illustrated by the recent submissions for the Arms & Armor open call. Many submissions that were received will require extensive spelling and grammar corrections along with changes to the game mechanics if we choose to use them (not to mention that some folks didn't even include their contact information). On the flip side, those sent in by "established" writers have no need of corrections as they are properly formatted, spell checked, and contain appropriate grammar.

The less work a developer has to do, the more receptive the publisher will be to paying them better.

-Steve Creech

So in theory, if an unknown sends in a number of perfectly formatted, grammatically correct, mechanically strong submissions, are they going to get paid more than the experienced author with antiquated formatting and a iffy sense of rules (but intriguing ideas)?

Would the variance in pay be better expressed as "pay ranges from .01 -.03 cents/word, with properly formatted, spell checked, and grammatically correct material receiving a higher rate"? I'd have no argument with that.

Again, the Bastion Press Open Call didn't prompt this. Really.

Cheers
Nell.
Who darn well did include his contact information.

 

[Scorpio]

It's like credit. You need good credit to get credit, You have to prove you don't need money to get a bank loan, etc. etc. And Bastion Press, or most any other company, are not going to reply to every submission they recieve.
You might want to hang out at the RPGNet Freelancer Forums and pick up some tips from experienced vets.

 

[Napftor]

Then we must not be reading the same open calls, because the ones I see say "send us something, and we'll accept it after we read it"...

Well, if open calls say that then they deserve whatever crap filters in. Statements like that one could not have come from an established company. I'm developing a product from a recent open call at this moment and, let me tell you, I'd be ready to pay better money for submissions I don't have to fix the spelling, grammar, and layout for! One doesn't become a "name" in the industry with improperly formatted work or poor grasp of the English language.

Does this mean that "name" authors/artists deserve better pay for open calls? You bet it does. The moral of the story is simply to suck it up and play by whatever company's rules you are submitting for. It's not like most of us are in this for the money anyway, right?

 

[Morgenstern]

Even 1 feat out of a 100 page book?

Spin is spin . Vary rarely does the reader/buyer know who did what.

[text that blows up]

Maybe I'm naive, but isn't a big chunk of -that- responsibility on the editor?

You might think so, but very few editors are also designers. My job is actually a little odd by virtue that I am a "Mechanics Editor", so when that sort of thing does slip through, I end up doing damage control (errata/clarifications, apologies, whatever) and yes, we frequently terminate further dealings if that author hasn't previously built up a body of good work with us. Repair falls on the editor, but professional onus and blame fall on the writer. As my editing mentor points out "I didn't put the mistake there."

And if it does "blow up", do you get to cut his pay in half?

I've seen it happen, but most days you just don't offer that person work again. That's actually part of the difference. A new writer wants his stuff to be good enough to get more work. A seasoned pro NEEDS his stuff to be good, every time, because if it's not, he's in trouble. There's a palpable difference in drive sometimes.

The argument that experienced authors are automatically better at it than everyone else is going to have to fight its way past the WotC splatbooks, and every other "broken" rule WotC ever put out that generated a 4 page argument here at EN World, at least for me.

*snort* Automatically? Hell no. But taking an agregate of your odds based on past experience as a publisher? You bet on (and court) folks who are known winners.

I dunno. I understand the rationale when an experienced author -writes- a book, but not when s/he contributes smaller amounts of material to an open call.

The original question presents an almost non-existant situation in the first place. If I get only "passable" material from a big name, I'm not hiring him again, particularly as I also got "passable" stuff from a new writer at the same time. The extra money attracted some reputedly good talent and I took my chances. If I get "brilliant" text from a big name, I'm happy, because my book will rock, and hopefully sell better. The higher rate was money well spent. If I get "brilliant" stuff from a newbie, my ears perk up and the possible discovery of a new talent, and I keep in touch, and posibly up his rate. Either way, it's in my interest as a publisher to lay out some honey for big name folks. It's like Confucious says (paraphrased), "Don't ask why the great man recieves rewards denied to you, ask how you can become a great man."

From the writer side of things, I know what the larger companies will pay for my time, and have 80% or more of the hours I want to work filled. I don't bother with open calls unless they'll offer something extra or the project just happens to be something that strikes my fancy and I want to write it over a weekend just because rather than for the money. A smaller publisher who does as you sugest will generally never see my stuff (or other big names, I suspect), and is gambling on happening to hit a winner just starting out, or having had an idea so good somebody of proven talent happens to like it and is willing to take a loss on their time to be involved. It can work, but you are gambling.

I'd like to think my material is judged by whether or not it's good, not by my name.

That's not particularly what the pay for this job is about. Its what your pay for the next job is based on . The judgement of good or bad is performed on your present work, but the consequences are usually reflected the next time around.

Hope this helps,

 

[Morgenstern]

So in theory, if an unknown sends in a number of perfectly formatted, grammatically correct, mechanically strong submissions, are they going to get paid more than the experienced author with antiquated formatting and a iffy sense of rules (but intriguing ideas)?

IMO, no. Well, maybe as much, if the other guy's stuff is genuinely lame (how they got to be big name dong that I have no idea). What's going happen is next time around, I'm only going to fill half the book's space with open calls, and I'm going to hire that person directly to fill the other half.

Would the variance in pay be better expressed as "pay ranges from .01 -.03 cents/word, with properly formatted, spell checked, and grammatically correct material receiving a higher rate"? I'd have no argument with that.

Maybe, as long as recognize that behind the scenes, your stuff is going to have to be phenomenal to pull the 3 cents, while the big name's might only be quite good to get that. And as I mentioned above, there's a real possibility that you won't be "competing with" or being contrasted against any big names, because even 3 cents a word may not be enough to attract their attention.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Names shmames. These things should all read "full time freelancers will get paid more than part timers and fans."

 

[Ghostwind]

What's the rationale, particularly in open calls where the submissions are more likely to be small "chunks o' crunch", for "experienced writers will be paid more than inexperienced writers"? If Sean K. Reynolds and I both submit a 100 word feat, and neither needs editing, or improvement, why should he get paid 2x to 3x as much?

Ultimately, it boils down to exactly what you just said, "experience". Sean will get the edge because he is an experienced writer and understands what the publisher is looking for. IF he is paid a higher wage than you (which would only result in a dollar or two if you are using the 100 word feat example from above), then it is because he has earned it based upon his previous work experience and the quality of his submission. But, unless he is willing to tell you what he was paid, you will not be privy to that information. Wages and salaries in publishing are just like wages in other occupations, they are considered confidential. No one writer should know what others have made on a book unless all are willing to accept that there may be pay differences.

Now, if your submission is equally as good as his and shows potential, there is a very good possibility that you will receive a higher than average rate or that you will be considered for future work from that publisher. Much of being a freelance writer is about fostering contacts and goodwill. Freelancers who are too demanding, brash, or difficult to work with (even if they are brilliant writers) will have a harder road to success than writers who are patient, follow instructions carefully, and listen to what publishers have to say. Sometimes that means working for less at first until you have established yourself and your work ethic with that publisher. Ask any full-time freelancer about this and most will agree. Like any position with a company, you have to earn your rewards and raises through the work you do. Once you've done that, then the respect is easier to come by...

 

[Ghostwind]

So in theory, if an unknown sends in a number of perfectly formatted, grammatically correct, mechanically strong submissions, are they going to get paid more than the experienced author with antiquated formatting and a iffy sense of rules (but intriguing ideas)?

If the unknown's submissions show originality along with the above then you bet they are going to catch my eye faster than a known author's iffy but intriguing submission. The less work a lead developer has to do, including changing the submission to fit the product's needs, the more receptive he (and the publisher) will be to additional work and/or higher rates of pay.

 

[Nellisir]

I appreciate the answers and insight, gentlemen. Thank you.


Nell.