WWII: What should my RPG setting be?

[S'mon]

Here's a good one - convince the Japanese to go after the Russians instead of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

But they did - see here: Battles of Khalkhin Gol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- and Zhukov totally trashed the Japanese 6th army. It was this defeat that persuaded the Japanese high command to focus on Pacific expansion rather than fighting a land war in Asia.

Changing this would require (a) assassinate Zhukov, fairly simple and (b) the Japanese would need good tanks! The latter seems a lot harder to me, but doable - they had good planes after all. Get them the plans for the Soviet T34 and get them to focus on tank production for several years before the war. They also need a better military doctrine focused on massive application of force to achieve a decisive result, similar to the US Grant Doctrine/Soviet Zhukov Doctrine. Germam style stormtroop tactics/Blitzkrieg/maneuver warfare/3rd generation warfare is even more effective, but relies on a highly professional, highly trained army down to the individual soldier level, with a really good non-commissioned officer corps. The Grant/Zhukov approach is far less demanding and can be equally effective.

Edit: As far as easy & sweeping changes to make go, killing Zhukov would seem likely to be the one that would have the biggest single effect on WW2, probably more than Churchill, Hitler, Stalin or Rommel.

 

[Silver Moon]

I'm not so sure I'd use France.

France is the setting for the original 1980's Timemaster module. It is written by Gali Sanchez, who writes in the introduction:

"This adventure is respectfully dedicated to those members of "Les Maquis" who, among others, arranged for the escape of my family from Occupied France. Many of these people gave their lives so that future generations could enjoy freedom and liberty.

I am member of such a generation. This adventure is tribute to these brave Partisans. Although more than 40 years have passed since these men and women gave their lives, we still remember their deeds, which is time tavel in the truest sense."

So I plan to use this excellent Maquis-related module as the first part of a two-part WWII time travel storyline. The alien plot in the module revolves around replacing German leaders with their own shape-shifting people, to then be in a position to change the war using their advanced knowledge. In the module the Playing Characters defeat the aliens in the end. For Part Two I plan to either have some aliens escape capture and continue their plan and/or have a renegade time-cop decided to become Adolph's second-in-command (now that the aliens have already set the stage for him.)

So Part Two probably won't be in France, it could be anywhere that the Nazis are after 1941. Keep the ideas coming!

 

[Brainwatch]

You stated you want a more action packed ending, then go for the classic IT'S A TRAP!

The aliens don't really care if Germany wins WWII they have another target in mind. This is actually an opening move against the Timecop organization itself. In France have them doing something small, like setting up a "secret" facility that developing, manufacture advanced electronics. They really don't care if it helps Germany or not, what their looking for is to lure a Time Cop Squad. They want to do enough to have a squad show up, but not too much that the response is too large.

The Aliens have 3 goals for their mission:
1 Identity of the Time Cops and their methods of Operation.
2 Identify any resources the Time Cops can call on (ie can they call for
reinforcements)
3 Eliminate the Time Cops

So it could play out something like this. The PC arrive back in France and do their normal investigation of this new high tech gear the Germans (especially in this area) have started fielding. Once the PC have located the "Secret" facility, when the move to "take out" the place (Hey they're PC of course they move to take out the place) the Aliens spring their trap and a lot of fighting ensures. Perhaps a running battle type scenario with one side pursuing the other across France.

 

[Silver Moon]

Great ideas so far, keep 'em coming. My initial thought was to take a Allied victory that could have turned the tide of war had it been an Axis victory instead, based on one of two changes from those who knew the outcome in advance.

One that immediately came to mind was the Battle of Falaise Pocket, the most decisive battle in the 10-day Battle of Normandy in mid-August 1944. But I'm not quite sure how something on that scale is impacted by a small group of commando playing characters.

 

[Derren]

You might also look at the east front because there was where the war was decided way before D-Day. The delayed soviet invasion which resulted in the desasterous winter war (result of Italy getting bogged down in the balkan), the decision to besiege Stalingrad instead of going for Moscow, etc.

And if you really want to mess with the players (and they are mature enough to handle it) you can make the Nazis winning the real timeline and someone altered the timeline to make the allies win and the aliens just want to restore the timeline.

Generally big failures of the Germans were:

- Not destroying the British expedition army
- Loosing the Battle of Britain by stopping to go after airfields and instead attack cities (+ not having long range bombers)
- Start the invasion of the soviet union too late to get bogged down in winter
- Not bypassing Stalingrad and go directly for Moscow
- Not seizing the soviet oil fields

Not sure how much of a failure the loss of the Afrika Corps was.
You also should google Battle of Kursk/Unternehmen Zitadelle and Operation Sealion.

 

[S'mon]

Great ideas so far, keep 'em coming. My initial thought was to take a Allied victory that could have turned the tide of war had it been an Axis victory instead, based on one of two changes from those who knew the outcome in advance.

One that immediately came to mind was the Battle of Falaise Pocket, the most decisive battle in the 10-day Battle of Normandy in mid-August 1944. But I'm not quite sure how something on that scale is impacted by a small group of commando playing characters.

I think any alien running the simulation would quickly see that once all the forces are on the table, there is no Allied victory that could turn the tide of the war by becoming an Axis victory. The force imbalance is too great. In particular the economic production imbalance is more than 3:1 against the Axis, from what I can tell - see eg here - Military production during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - and Soviet production figures have traditionally been heavily understated.

For the Axis to have any chance to win, they have to avoid going to war with at least one of the two real superpowers - USA, or USSR. The former AIR is the plot of Star Trek's "City on the Edge of Forever".
But I guess this doesn't give you the kind of plot you want.

Edit: This book excerpt supports the 'three times' figure.

 

[Derren]

For the Axis to have any chance to win, they have to avoid going to war with at least one of the two real superpowers - USA, or USSR.

Or knock out one of them fast either by taking Moscow and the soviet industry and oil or by getting Britain to surrender which means that the US has no foothold in Europe.

 

[S'mon]

Or knock out one of them fast either by taking Moscow and the soviet industry and oil or by getting Britain to surrender which means that the US has no foothold in Europe.

The Soviets had vast manufactuting capacity east of the Urals. Moscow would not win the war for Hitler any more than it did for Napoleon.

If Germany can conquer Britain while avoiding war with America, that could secure the Reich's Atlantic flank in the short term. However unless she can somehow capture the Royal Navy intact (rather than it sail off to New York) the Anglo-Americans would still have naval supremacy and could use it to (re) establish a bridgehead in the British Isles then go from there. In any case the Royal Navy makes a successful German invasion of Britain very difficult, any landing force can easily be cut off.

From the moment Germany attacked the USSR, there isn't really a plausible victory scenario for the Third Reich IMO. After she declares war on the USA it just gets hopeless, in the mid-long term. To win, Germany needs to play a long game from late 1940, stay allied with the USSR, absorb her conquests in Europe, and build up technologies that can make an invasion of Britain feasible, or at least cut Britain off from her Empire.

I think there are scenarios where Nazi Germany emerges victorious, but they're more about *stopping* the Germans from over-extending.

Possibly the best thing the aliens could do to help Nazi Germany would be to assassinate Hitler at Christmas 1940.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Part of the problem for the Axis was that the USA & USSR are both ridiculously blessed with raw materials...and had large population bases.

That meant that they could churn out gear and soldiers to use it at a rate they simply could not compete with. By fighting both simultaneously, they sealed their fate.

Germany, in contrast, had to deal with material and manpower shortages of all kinds. One reason the Hindenburg went out like it did is that they had to use a more flammable lifting gas than other nations...because that was all they could get.

 

[billd91]

From the moment Germany attacked the USSR, there isn't really a plausible victory scenario for the Third Reich IMO.

I don't believe that's true, in general. Had they invaded as a liberating, anti-Bolshevik army, I think it could have been possible. But then, that was pretty much beyond the imagination of the Nazis.

There were suggestions that a short term capitulation might have been possible, though the Soviets almost certainly would have used that to recover enough to strike back.