X2 *spoilers*
- Thread starter Sulimo
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Vocenoctum
First Post
My main problem with tehe first movie was that they had a lot of characters with one line or such. It weakened them somewhat.
In 2, they expand their dialogue a lot, but it really starts to show where some of them just don't seem to fit their roles. Jean Grey didn't seem comfortable being Jean Grey for instance.
Magneto's escape scene was great, as was Pyro throughout the movie. Rogue really seemed to only be in this movie because she was in the first, and her role here was lacking IMO.
I enjoyed Kitty and Collosus more than most of Rogue for instance.
I also really wanted a large phoenix when she was holding back the water.
I also think it would have been better if the water where she was had iced over, then you saw the melted pattern of the Phoenix.
I didn't like the look of Nightcrawler really. Mystique was definetly better this time around, but I really wish I could see her & er, Freedom Force? in the next one. I want Spiral!
All in all, a great movie, and I didn't mind Magneto & Mystique taunting Rogue. I do wonder what Rogue had planned to do against them though
(I wonder if Iceman will be skating around on Ice next movie...)
In 2, they expand their dialogue a lot, but it really starts to show where some of them just don't seem to fit their roles. Jean Grey didn't seem comfortable being Jean Grey for instance.
Magneto's escape scene was great, as was Pyro throughout the movie. Rogue really seemed to only be in this movie because she was in the first, and her role here was lacking IMO.
I enjoyed Kitty and Collosus more than most of Rogue for instance.
I also really wanted a large phoenix when she was holding back the water.
I also think it would have been better if the water where she was had iced over, then you saw the melted pattern of the Phoenix.
I didn't like the look of Nightcrawler really. Mystique was definetly better this time around, but I really wish I could see her & er, Freedom Force? in the next one. I want Spiral!
All in all, a great movie, and I didn't mind Magneto & Mystique taunting Rogue. I do wonder what Rogue had planned to do against them though
(I wonder if Iceman will be skating around on Ice next movie...)
Kai Lord
Hero
DonAdam said:
Heh.
DonAdam said:
Nightcrawler was a good guy, and his little tirade at the beginning caused almost all the woes of the entire film. It made perfect sense for him to show restraint after that. Besides, he did exactly what was needed, what do you think he should have done?
Heh, this was so ridiculous I found it genuinely funny. "Tee hee, look Mystique, her hair's white, tee hee hee. The star quarterback will definitely choose me instead of her now, tee hee hee." Priceless. I wouldn't change a thing. Plus I got a kick out of Magneto's subtle irritation over Pyro mentioning how dorky his helmet was.DonAdam said:
DonAdam said:
Come on dude, we're talking about a movie with teleporting mutants.
If he says its dangerous, then it is. For all we know Nightcrawler risked his life every time he "bamfed" into another room at the White House. And the Rogue rescue was just freaking COOL, which was the point. If his accuracy was a hang-up, just assume he made a really good guess. If you can't suspend your disbelief over something so minor, why the heck did you plunk down the cash for a movie based on a comic book?
Silver Moon
Adventurer
Actually, the Magneto/Rogue interchange on the plane made perfect sense to me. When people who do not get along due to past situations are forced to spend time together there is a great deal of tension. It is not surprising that one might try to make a not-so-funny joke, that the other does not apppreciate. I'm sure that I'm not the only person who has seen this same type of behavior at weddings where divorced couples are present.
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DonAdam
Explorer
Sure, people make jokes in poor taste in those situations; but not Magneto. It was totally out of character.
The helmet comment, on the other hand, made perfect sense and was very funny.
Now, though, it's time for the rant about suspending disbelief:
I'm all for suspending disbelief. I'm watching a movie about mutants and superheroes.
However, all I ask for is consistency. The problem with Nightcrawler switching from teleporting blind to not doing it was the total lack of consistency with what I had accepted from the movie (in willing suspension of disbelief) before.
Some people say that suspension of disbelief also means I shouldn't worry about consistency. This is nonsense. If you cannot ground moments of tension in what is happening and has happened in the film and have to resort to constantly changing the rules, there is no basis for the tension. I have no reason to care about Jean sacrificing herself when I know she could have done the same thing from the cockpit.
And I don't go looking for inconsistencies. I've had people point them out in other movies such as the Matrix and Minority Report, but they were few and relatively subtle. But this movie kicked me in the face repeatedly with them, and at what were supposed to be terribly dramatic moments.
Compare this to the first film. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that wasn't consistent. It was very carefully constructed. Even the cartoon (from the early 90's, not that 90210 evolution nonsense) showed more careful plot construction than X2 did.
There is no reason to feel any tension or care at all about what's going on when the film makers are just going to fiat what happens left and right. That is very, very, very poor moviemaking.
Why did I pay the money? Because the first film, despite a few minor problems, did an amazing job and didn't have these issues.
The helmet comment, on the other hand, made perfect sense and was very funny.
Now, though, it's time for the rant about suspending disbelief:
I'm all for suspending disbelief. I'm watching a movie about mutants and superheroes.
However, all I ask for is consistency. The problem with Nightcrawler switching from teleporting blind to not doing it was the total lack of consistency with what I had accepted from the movie (in willing suspension of disbelief) before.
Some people say that suspension of disbelief also means I shouldn't worry about consistency. This is nonsense. If you cannot ground moments of tension in what is happening and has happened in the film and have to resort to constantly changing the rules, there is no basis for the tension. I have no reason to care about Jean sacrificing herself when I know she could have done the same thing from the cockpit.
And I don't go looking for inconsistencies. I've had people point them out in other movies such as the Matrix and Minority Report, but they were few and relatively subtle. But this movie kicked me in the face repeatedly with them, and at what were supposed to be terribly dramatic moments.
Compare this to the first film. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that wasn't consistent. It was very carefully constructed. Even the cartoon (from the early 90's, not that 90210 evolution nonsense) showed more careful plot construction than X2 did.
There is no reason to feel any tension or care at all about what's going on when the film makers are just going to fiat what happens left and right. That is very, very, very poor moviemaking.
Why did I pay the money? Because the first film, despite a few minor problems, did an amazing job and didn't have these issues.
As far as the hesitation at teleporting to the other side of the door goes, bear in mind that that thing wasn't just any old door, it was a metal blast door. Just how thick was it? Hard to tell from the outside. Had Nightcrawler teleported to the other side, giving himself enough clearance for a normal door's thickness and then found out the thing was three feet thick, he'd be dead. If he decided to teleport ten feet straight ahead, he runs the chance of materializing inside something in the room. Kind of hard to call, not knowing what's on the other side.
Johnathan
Johnathan
Wormwood
Adventurer
You make some good points, but I have a couple of my own.
1) Nightcrawler was super badass in the first scene.
I'd say that under the effects of the brain-juice, Nightcrawler was free to express all of his repressed badassedness. I also assumed it was a big fat jolt of fearlessness.
2) Magneto giggling like a school girl at Rogue on the plane.
Dude, I really thought that was funny. This one of the most powerful men on the planet, taking time out of his busy genocidal schedule to mock a little girl. That was a really cool character moment for me: it's easy to set up a character as an 'evil genius', but to make him catty, petty and puerile? Genius.
3) The whole break-in to the base. They had Magneto with them, and then they launch this complicated plan to attack a base mostly made out of metal.
I'll cheerfully concede that.
5) For that matter, why didn't Magneto and Mystique just steal the jet and go themselves? They didn't need any help, and bringing the others along is just asking to get thwarted.
Exactly. It's not like Lady Deathstrike would pose much of a problem to old Magnus. Just kill everyone inside, set Xavier to 'kill bot' and be home before General Hospital.
7) The worst scene of the movie was the Jean Grey death scene.
Eh. I didn't have a problem with it...mainly because I thought the reason she left the ship was because her powers were interfering with electronics (um, except for the dogfight earlier---but shhhhh). I was hoping that the engines would start up once she left the area (which would prove my hypothesis), but I *hated* the fact that she turned them on via remote control. Point conceded.
9) At the beginning of the movie, and on the plane, Nightcrawler had no problem teleporting where he couldn't see (too accurately for my taste, actually).
Again, I think he was acting with doped-up, reckless abandon in the opening. No problem there.
But yeah, it's pretty safe to assume that the two feet in front of a door is probably clear. Lame excuse for a callback to the Storm/Kurt 'faith' moment.
11) Wolverine could smell who Mystique was in the last movie. Why not this one?
I wracked by brains to come up with a counter to this, but all I could come up with is Hugh Jackman really lobbied hard for some 'grind-time' with Famke Janssen.
I don't blame him.
12) In the plane chase scene Magneto sealed up the blackbird. When they were flying back to Washington, the hole came back. I thought that was an appropriate analogy for the whole movie.
Great line, but no dice. I just checked it out: while the plane is pretty banged up, there is no hole in the return trip. It ain't pretty, but it's sealed.
I mean, if there was a big, gaping hole in the plane, wouldn't Scott have jumped out of it?
Sorry.
edit: me no talk so good.
1) Nightcrawler was super badass in the first scene.
I'd say that under the effects of the brain-juice, Nightcrawler was free to express all of his repressed badassedness. I also assumed it was a big fat jolt of fearlessness.
2) Magneto giggling like a school girl at Rogue on the plane.
Dude, I really thought that was funny. This one of the most powerful men on the planet, taking time out of his busy genocidal schedule to mock a little girl. That was a really cool character moment for me: it's easy to set up a character as an 'evil genius', but to make him catty, petty and puerile? Genius.
3) The whole break-in to the base. They had Magneto with them, and then they launch this complicated plan to attack a base mostly made out of metal.
I'll cheerfully concede that.
5) For that matter, why didn't Magneto and Mystique just steal the jet and go themselves? They didn't need any help, and bringing the others along is just asking to get thwarted.
Exactly. It's not like Lady Deathstrike would pose much of a problem to old Magnus. Just kill everyone inside, set Xavier to 'kill bot' and be home before General Hospital.
7) The worst scene of the movie was the Jean Grey death scene.
Eh. I didn't have a problem with it...mainly because I thought the reason she left the ship was because her powers were interfering with electronics (um, except for the dogfight earlier---but shhhhh). I was hoping that the engines would start up once she left the area (which would prove my hypothesis), but I *hated* the fact that she turned them on via remote control. Point conceded.
9) At the beginning of the movie, and on the plane, Nightcrawler had no problem teleporting where he couldn't see (too accurately for my taste, actually).
Again, I think he was acting with doped-up, reckless abandon in the opening. No problem there.
But yeah, it's pretty safe to assume that the two feet in front of a door is probably clear. Lame excuse for a callback to the Storm/Kurt 'faith' moment.
11) Wolverine could smell who Mystique was in the last movie. Why not this one?
I wracked by brains to come up with a counter to this, but all I could come up with is Hugh Jackman really lobbied hard for some 'grind-time' with Famke Janssen.
I don't blame him.
12) In the plane chase scene Magneto sealed up the blackbird. When they were flying back to Washington, the hole came back. I thought that was an appropriate analogy for the whole movie.
Great line
, but no dice. I just checked it out: while the plane is pretty banged up, there is no hole in the return trip. It ain't pretty, but it's sealed.I mean, if there was a big, gaping hole in the plane, wouldn't Scott have jumped out of it?
Sorry.
edit: me no talk so good.
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Henry
Autoexreginated
DonAdam said:
In my opinion, I loved this scene and wouldn't have changed a thing. Magneto and Mystique's pleasure at Rogue's pain was perfect for them. And I equally loved Rogue's reaction - Taking off her glove and heading for Magneto with that "I'm gonna take you behind the woodshed" look.
Kai Lord
Hero
Since none of those people are on this thread, who cares? There's nothing inconsistent about Nightcrawler correctly guessing where Rogue would be at that exact moment in her freefall. One in a million guess, but those are the kinds of things that show up in movies, and not just those about super heroes.DonAdam said:
As for Wolverine smelling Mystique, maybe she remembered what happened the last time she tried to sneak up on him and stole some of Jean's perfume.
Or his mind was in the wrong place causing him to breath through his mouth...
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