XP and defeating opponents

[Presto2112]

@Presto2112

Actually, there already is, kinda:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0021.html

LOL, so long ago I forgot about it...

Sheesh, it even involved Belkar!

 

[pallandrome]

When did I say you should punish the players for having the bad guys run away? I've said all along that if there was a challenge, they should get rewards for it within the challenge rating system.

You are right, now that I look. I owe you somewhat of an apology for mixing what you said with what someone else did. I still don't agree with the manner in which you expressed whatcha did say, but that's another matter.

I'm just discussing things here, not trying to force anyone to agree with me.

again, more the reason for me to apologize. I may have woken up on the wrong side of the bed this mornin.

Question: do you give the exact same amount of XP every week no matter what happens in game?

Of course not, that would be silly. I give them XP based on how far the meta-plot has progressed. See, the GM is almost always weaving a story. With good GMs, you should never even realize it, but that doesn't make it not true. You can occasionally find games where nothing in the setting occurs without the players being present, but I find such things patently rediculous. Life goes on in an effectively realistic world, no matter what the players do (short of destroying the world, they ARE roleplayers, after all). Therefor the GM HAS to make a story around what the players are not involved in, if he wants the setting to make sense.

 

[James McMurray]

No problem. Stuff happens.

I also appear to have misread you. When I see statements like "follow my story" I immediately leap to thoughts of railroad DMs and the pet plotlines.

I agree that stories are always going on in the background. Even in a simple dungeon crawl the "story" of who hears which battles and how they respond has to be addressed by the DM.

 

[mvincent]

Absolutely agreed. It's all about overcoming the challenge.

That said: Isn't it possible for the PCs to "set up" their own challenges?

It's possible, just unlikely. Disarming a trap that was set up by your ally should not garner you XP, unless perhaps the ally never told you about the trap, and you disarm it believing that it was placed there by an enemy. If you can't tell the difference, and the trap genuinely is a challenged that could harm you, then you should probably get experience.

Example/Anecdote:
While separated from his party, a PC pulls a bear out of his tan bag of tricks, but realizes that he doesn't need it. He then sends the bear down the hall to aid his party.

The party, not knowing about this (and having just narrowly survived fighting off a bunch of bears) attack it on sight and kill it. They got XP.

 

[shilsen]

So you prefer the arbitrariness of "I'll give you what I think you should have" to "I'll give you what you've earned." Sort of like taking out grades and letting anyone who shows up for class pass the course. It wouldn't work for me or my group, but if it works for you that's cool.

Looks like the discussion's already moved past this question, but my answer is - yes. Except that "pass the course" doesn't fit my gaming approach, just like grading doesn't (which is why I removed the concept of XP based on in-game actions).

For me, the aim of the game is to enjoy ourselves, and as long as the players are doing so, I think I'm being successful as a DM. The XP is not a reward of any kind. It is simply a placeholder to indicate how far they are from leveling up. I could run the game just fine without any increase in levels, but since the players want their PCs to do so, I have it happen at a speed I'm comfortable with. They're happy because the PCs level and get more powerful and have new toys. I'm happy because it happens at a speed that is conducive to me being able to DM for them.

Incidentally, I should mention that I also award full XP for PCs whose players miss a session. I've seen debates about that too, and again, not doing so would be analogous to cutting my students' participation grades for poor attendance (which I do as a professor, but not as a DM). As far as I'm concerned, the best part of the game is the playing thereof, not the XP and the leveling, so if some poor bloke is missing the game, why compound that by making his XP level up slower as well? It would make sense if XP was a reward of some kind, but it isn't for me.

Lastly, on the stories and plots angle, I've always told my players that there is absolutely no plotline I expect them to follow. The plot is the story of their PCs' adventures, and emerges from us following the decisions and actions they make. Though all of these decisions and actions have repercussions, there is no overarching story that they absolutely must focus on. My XP method is seriously helpful to that end, since they know they can just do what they and their chaacters want and not have to worry about robbing themselves of XP in some way. For example, at one point they were involved in half a dozen minor plots and getting in progressively hotter water, and then one guy said IC, "Screw this! Let's just go to Xen'drik," this being an Eberron game where Xen'drik is an entirely different continent. So I grinned, shelved all the plots I had in mind as they just jumped on a ship and took off, and their events there spawned a plot that ran for the next 20-25 sessions.

 

[James McMurray]

Cool. It's like I'm Arnold and you're Kimberly (or vice versa, whichever you prefer). Different approaches, but by the end of the episode we're at the same point.

 

[shilsen]

Cool. It's like I'm Arnold and you're Kimberly (or vice versa, whichever you prefer). Different approaches, but by the end of the episode we're at the same point.

I have to say that is one analogy I have never heard on these boards

And I'll take it. At the end of the day, it's just a question of doing what works for your group. If you are and I am, we're both doing something right.

 

[James McMurray]

Well, I almost made myself Willis instead of Arnold, but was afraid that would be viewed as just an attempt to make myself look cool.

 

[Jhulae]

Cool. It's like I'm Arnold and you're Kimberly (or vice versa, whichever you prefer). Different approaches, but by the end of the episode we're at the same point.

A dead end career?

 

[DreadArchon]

Did I somehow give the impression that I was, despite having been fairly consistent in quoting the people I was responding to?

No, but I read through once in chronological order and then (after hitting reply) once in reverse chronological order, at which point I seem to have confused myself severely.

>_<

Incidentally, I should mention that I also award full XP for PCs whose players miss a session. I've seen debates about that too, and again, not doing so would be analogous to cutting my students' participation grades for poor attendance (which I do as a professor, but not as a DM).

I keep my players all at about the same level of wealth and XP, regardless of whether they show up to sessions, and it seems to work fine for me. They just don't get "story rewards."

For example, a couple weeks back:
Barbarian: "What did I miss?"
Me: "The Warlock, Assassin, and Cleric have their own town now."
Barbarian: "Aw, I want a town..."
Me: "Well, you weren't here. *shurgs* Oh, and your character got 8000 XP and 5000 gold."

Of course, they also get that much less chance to become familiar with their characters. Back to the Professor example, it's like dropping the attendance grade entirely, but if they don't get the extra notes sheets or they find out they can't pass the test or the class requirements change and they don't find out... well, too bad.