XP and defeating opponents

[Jhulae]

But if they hadn't shown up, he wouldn't have left. I'm not sure I understand what you're finding to be the point of disagreement.

Sorry, you really are reaching.

"Driven Away" is the party fighting the lich until he's forced to Teleport and flees for his life, because staying would mean he'd be destroyed. Either through superior tactics or dumb lucky dice, the party put the hurt on the lich and *forced* him away, even if you, the DM, didn't expect the party to actually win or even come close to winning. Regardless, the party fought the lich. There was danger there, because the lich was fighting, hopefully to the best of his ability. XP is rewarded for the risk to the party, and XP will be rewarded for the risk they face again the next time they meet.

"Plot Device" is having the Lich teleport away at the beginning of the battle. You, as the DM, know the party isn't going to fight the lich. They're not 'driving him away', you're advancing the story. There's no risk to the party from the lich, because he's not fighting them. Since it's a No Risk situation, no exp is given for the lich (but XP would be given for the minions who stayed and fought).

As long as there's risk to the party, they get exp. The amount of risk determines the amount of exp (and there's a table for that in the DMG, IIRC). No risk, no XP. But, if the baddie is really fighting for his life and runs away? Oh, yeah.. XP now, and XP when he returns.

 

[pawsplay]

Sorry, you really are reaching.

... For what?

"Driven Away" is the party fighting the lich until he's forced to Teleport and flees for his life, because staying would mean he'd be destroyed. Either through superior tactics or dumb lucky dice, the party put the hurt on the lich and *forced* him away, even if you, the DM, didn't expect the party to actually win or even come close to winning. Regardless, the party fought the lich. There was danger there, because the lich was fighting, hopefully to the best of his ability. XP is rewarded for the risk to the party, and XP will be rewarded for the risk they face again the next time they meet.

"Plot Device" is having the Lich teleport away at the beginning of the battle. You, as the DM, know the party isn't going to fight the lich. They're not 'driving him away', you're advancing the story.

How many rounds are you allowed to "advance the story" without getting XP? Do they get XP if he fights one round before he flees? What about two? Three rounds?....

I don't see any basic difference, except when the bad guy decided he was taking too much of a risk. A bad guy who flees early conserves his resources... in many ways, he remains more dangerous.

 

[Jhulae]

Okay, so basically, you're either ignoring or missing the section on encounter difficulty and XP, so there's really no further point in discussing it.

 

[pawsplay]

I don't see your point at all, but you're welcome to declare victory and retire from the field.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But if they hadn't shown up, he wouldn't have left.

I do not think you can expect there to be a hard and fast rule that creates a bright line between defeat and non-defeat.

Fairness merely suggests you do your best as a DM to assess the amount of resources pitted against the PCs in the encounter.

If the Lich is saving all his 8th and 9th level spells for his evil plan to end the world at midnight, you are going to have to fudge things as there is a hidden encounter level modifier.

If the arrival of the PCs triggers the departure of the Lich, then there were probably zero resources in the contest to account for. If he casts a Summon Monster VI just before the PCs burst in, you are going to have to fudge things.

 

[Jhulae]

I don't see your point at all, but you're welcome to declare victory and retire from the field.

Okay.. I'll try to explain how XP by the book is handled, and maybe it'll become clearer to you.

XP is given per victorious encounter, based on the difficulty of the encounter for the PCs to overcome.

So, it doesn't matter if they have 20 encounters with 20 different bad guys, or 20 encounters with the same bad guy.

If an encounter provides a significant threat to the party, they get full XP. So, if the bad guy is trying to do all he can to kill the party and they defeat him, either by forcing him to run away or by killing him, they get full XP for that encounter.

If the encounter provides no danger to the party, such as by the Lich teleporting away (and we'll say he's the only baddie in the encounter), they get no XP for that encounter because there's no danger at all to the party. There's essentially nothing for them to overcome.

If the Lich casts spells for a couple of rounds against the party, providing the possibility of a party member injury and/or death, but he runs away, they get *some* XP (as there was some danger), but not full, because the party wasn't *fully* threatened. The encounter level is lowered because of the lowered danger. (However, if the PCs got lucky in those three rounds and managed to kill the Lich, they'd get full).

There's a whole table for this kind of thing in the DMG. (See "Difficulty" on page 49 of the Dungeon Master's Guide for details.)

So, again, XP is rewarded per encounter, regardless of whether it's 20 different bad guys, or the same bad guy 20 times.

 

[Delta]

But what about the case where they drive an opponent away, but the DM knows that that opponent will be back again days or weeks down the road? It wouldn't be right to give XP twice. So when would you give it: at the initial defeat? Or the final defeat?

If killed, I give 100% XP. If otherwise foiled, I give 50%... if foiled again I give half the rest or 25%... if foiled again I give 12%... etc... when finally killed I give whatever's still left over.

 

[pawsplay]

So, again, XP is rewarded per encounter, regardless of whether it's 20 different bad guys, or the same bad guy 20 times.

Yup, I already understood all of that.

 

[Jhulae]

Yup, I already understood all of that.

Then, I really have no idea on what you're basing your argument in all honesty.

 

[shilsen]

And, as often happens with such threads, the above argument just underlines why awarding XP based on potentially nebulous, and often arbitrary, concepts such as victory and overcoming an encounter is a fairly lousy idea.