XP and defeating opponents

[pawsplay]

This sort of argument doesn't hold up.

Why did they run away? You have to be way more specific than the bad guys "aren't really defeated" before we can judge why XP should not be awarded twice. If it's true the PCs didn't really defeat the monsters...it's a special case, not a general rule. And often enough the special case is better termed "DM railroading".

IOW: In general, award XP twice.....unless there are extenuatuing circumstances.

Why do I have to be more specific? My suggestion is supposed to be vague. I could give an example, but not more specific rules.

An example: The PCs barge into the throne room of the sorcerer-king. "Now you die, fiend!" says the paladin. "Not so fast," cackles the sorcerer-king. "I'll leave you to deal with my minions while my plans continue apace." He teleports away, and his minions attack. You don't get XP for defeating the sorcerer-king, because he isn't dead, and he's still out doing something bad somewhere. He isn't defeated, he just... left.

 

[Nail]

Why do I have to be more specific?

Because (as you aptly show in the following example), what you really mean is: "The PCs didn't fight one of the bad guys." Of course you don't give XP for a bad guy that the PCs didn't fight!

An example: The PCs barge into the throne room of the sorcerer-king. "Now you die, fiend!" says the paladin. "Not so fast," cackles the sorcerer-king. "I'll leave you to deal with my minions while my plans continue apace." He teleports away, and his minions attack. .

You don't get XP because....you didn't fight the Sorcerer King!

 

[pawsplay]

Well, sure. I was just noting that an opponent can be "driven away" without being properly defeated. Hence, he can be driven away, then later killed, and you get XP once.

 

[MarkB]

(one could even imagine a group of players - though not likely mine - that would even get in the habit of routing foes and then hunting them down later just to get double XP).

The way I interpret the DMG, XP are rewarded for overcoming an obstacle that lies between you and an in-character goal. Hunting down an already-defeated monster purely in order to gain the XP for defeating it again serves no greater goal, and is thus worth no XP. When players set up an extra challenge for themselves purely in order to knock it down, that is not XP-worthy.

 

[Nail]

Well, sure. I was just noting that an opponent can be "driven away" without being properly defeated. Hence, he can be driven away, then later killed, and you get XP once.

pawsplay, yer reachin'.

In your example, you'd be hard-pressed to say the Sorcerer-King was "driven away". Since he was not driven away, you didn''t defeat him, ergo.....

 

[Nail]

When players set up an extra challenge for themselves purely in order to knock it down, that is not XP-worthy.

Could a PC have died while hunting for and defeating this monster? Note, we're not talking about PC stupidity leading to death; the XP/challenge system ignores PC readiness and luck.

If the answer is yes, I'd argue they still get XP. Perhaps an EL adjustment is in order, depending on circumstances, etc.

 

[James McMurray]

Because (as you aptly show in the following example), what you really mean is: "The PCs didn't fight one of the bad guys." Of course you don't give XP for a bad guy that the PCs didn't fight!

I give XP for enemies not fought, if they're intelligently avoided. If your job is to steal the Eye of Yamoto from the Priests of Ummagumma and you slip quietly past the Cloud Giant gaurds, you get XP for the gaurds. It's all about rewarding good play, not just good fighting.

CRs and XP are about challenges overcome, not challenges beaten senseless. Beating them senseless is the most common way people overcome them, but it's far from the only option available.

 

[pawsplay]

pawsplay, yer reachin'.

In your example, you'd be hard-pressed to say the Sorcerer-King was "driven away". Since he was not driven away, you didn''t defeat him, ergo.....

He left because they showed up, didn't he?

 

[Nail]

I give XP for enemies not fought, if they're intelligently avoided. If your job is to steal the Eye of Yamoto from the Priests of Ummagumma and you slip quietly past the Cloud Giant gaurds, you get XP for the gaurds. It's all about rewarding good play, not just good fighting.

CRs and XP are about challenges overcome, not challenges beaten senseless. Beating them senseless is the most common way people overcome them, but it's far from the only option available.

Absolutely agreed. It's all about overcoming the challenge.

That said: Isn't it possible for the PCs to "set up" their own challenges?

Perhaps an example is in order: The PCs have defeated the Sorcerer-King in a climactic throneroom battle. At the end of the fight with both the Sorcerer-King and his Minions, the Sorcerer King escapes, screaming like a little girl.

The PCs gain XP for the victory....and now they decide: We need to hunt down this Sorcerer-King and finish him off.

Do they get XP for doing so, even though it's the second time?

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

I used to count oly those that were killed, captured, or who yielded in some formal sense. Lately, though, I am inclined to simply reduce the CR by one if it got away.

XP, yes - now as for the +5 Vorpal longsword and the piece of the map to a 10 million gp treasure that the NPC was carrying uh... No