XP as dated?

[Ahnehnois]

Reward cycles in games are powerful things and I don't think you can have a satisfying experience without them. This makes me think that traditional XP (for GP or HD/CR) doesn't work as a reward cycle for those who drop XP - the ways that a character changes from XP isn't of much importance. Gaining a level doesn't speak to why you're playing the game as much as it does for a guy like me.

True, I think. My players kind of like when I tell them they can level, but they are often not that eager to change their characters' stats, especially with casters. The game is often more fun at low levels (hence E6). High levels don't really register as a reward, especially not if they're easily reached. So yes, I think my group has really gotten away from the notion that leveling their character is a major goal for the player.

And, interestingly enough, I tend to level quite fast; once every two or three sessions. The reason I do that is that I want to feel like I'm running a campaign with a broad scope, but I don't have years of time to work with. I don't need the XP system to tell me that.

I never used any kind of CR system, becaus it was obvious to everyone that challenge ratings had very little correlation with the actual challenge, and that most XP should be earned from doing things other than combat. I just assigned ad hoc XP. But when I did so on an individual basis, it often just seemed like I was punishing people who got less XP than others, for no good reason. And when I did it on a group basis, it just seemed like an arbitrary clock that paced the game, not a reflection of characters learning and growing. When I ditched it, all I got was a player nicely asking on occasion when the next level would come. No complaining, and less work for me.

So that's how we look at it.

 

[Libramarian]

I wrote a thread about XP in the D&D Next forum (and promptly ran out of steam on the topic), if anyone would like to read more of my thoughts they are here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-ho...960-style-daztur-xp-rewards-vs-xp-awards.html

True, I think. My players kind of like when I them they can level, but they are often not that eager to change their characters' stats, especially with casters. The game is often more fun at low levels (hence E6). High levels don't really register as a reward, especially not if they're easily reached. So yes, I think my group has really gotten away from the notion that leveling their character is a major goal for the player.

And, interestingly enough, I tend to level quite fast; once every two or three sessions. The reason I do that is that I want to feel like I'm running a campaign with a broad scope, but I don't have years of time to work with. I don't need the XP system to tell me that.

I never used any kind of CR system, becaus it was obvious to everyone that challenge ratings had very little correlation with the actual challenge, and that most XP should be earned from doing things other than combat. I just assigned ad hoc XP. But when I did so on an individual basis, it often just seemed like I was punishing people who got less XP than others, for no good reason. And when I did it on a group basis, it just seemed like an arbitrary clock that paced the game, not a reflection of characters learning and growing. When I ditched it, all I got was a player nicely asking on occasion when the next level would come. No complaining, and less work for me.

So that's how we look at it.

Out of curiosity what do your players mostly enjoy about the game? What brings the fun?

 

[Ahnehnois]

Out of curiosity what do your players mostly enjoy about the game? What brings the fun?

They write their characters with plot hooks. They enjoy developing them. They also enjoy banter and hilarity, rolling dice, and combat tactics. I tend to shift focus from one to another, but they seem to enjoy watching the story as a whole unfold and rooting for each other. But mostly they seem to care whether their character gets to do what they have in mind for him/her.

 

[Piratecat]

Why would players insist on any kind of XP system? They almost invariably complain about whatever system is used. What's so great about it that they would miss XP if it were gone?

My players never complain about anything. I tossed XP solely for my own convenience.

 

[Ahnehnois]

My players never complain about anything. I tossed XP solely for my own convenience.

You're very lucky then.

To be fair, my players are very reasonable these days, where at one point I had some malcontents. Maybe that's just what happens when you stay together for a while; these kinds of issues go away.

 

[Scott DeWar]

In the table top game I play in we have a variety of levels. Two new characters that have survived, despite the players are newbs, two new characters due to grisly untimely demises (let your imagination wander on this), two characters that have recently started by seasoned players, and two characters that have survived due to some skill of the players, but a lot of dumb luck.

Now you need to see the perspective of the players. Some can do math in their head all day long and excel in this, where the opposite is true: 2 + 2 will give a half dozen answers, and all will be wrong.

so we do this: 6 characters need 3000 xp to level up each. when the party hets 18000 xp those level up while the two level 3 characters patiently wait for the newbs to catch up.

why keep the party at the same level? remember the player with the math hang up? makes encounter design much easier. also allows the dm du jour to not be penalized for not plating, as the dm' s character is busy with "kingmaker administrative duties". currently, I am the guest dm.

 

[IronWolf]

Our group plays without XP. It works well for us and cuts down on a significant amount of bookkeeping. The GM simply determines when we should level, announces it and then our characters advance.

We've been doing it this way for several years now and works well for our group.

 

[imurphy943]

XP vs. fiat is another aspect of freedom vs. security, in that players like plenty of assurance that their victories are truly earned and significant. I err to security on this one, since I don't feel that the freedom payoff is enough to be worth it.

The numbers are hard to keep track of, but that's just the monster xp. I started giving out xp for treasure only, and it's simplified the number tracking a lot. If the players bother to write down new treasure in a different inventory slot, your work is basically done.

 

[Lord Zack]

I don't have predetermined conceptions on when PCs should level. Instead, how much xp they are able to get determines when they should level. That's why I use xp. My campaign is very player driven and also it's not certain whether the PCs will succeed or not.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I've personally done experience in many different ways. The last campaign I DM'd was a 4E game and I got rid of experience all together and leveled them up every 2-3 sessions. I've done the exact experience per 2E, 3.x, and Pathfinder as well.

I'm a currently a player and we are using a more simplified system for experience for Pathfinder. I think the DM grabbed it from another website and we seem to like it just fine.

Here's what our house-rules document states:

[FONT=&quot]Experience[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]
a. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At SLOW progression, each level requires 44 experience points.
At NORMAL progression, each level requires 30 experience points.
At FAST progression, each level requires 20 experience points.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Characters receive 1 experience point for: overcoming an easy battle; escaping from a difficult battle or boss battle; overcoming a non-combat challenge such as a trap, or diplomatic negotiation; other misc tasks the GM would like to offer rewards for.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Characters receive 2 experience points for: overcoming an appropriately leveled combat encounter.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]d. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Characters receive 3 experience points for: overcoming a very difficult encounter or boss battle, or completing a major task such as saving a kingdom.[/FONT]

In our game we are going with the "normal" progression and average 4-6 experience points per game which should average out to a level every 4-6 sessions and we game twice a month for a 6 hour block each time.

I do an ongoing journal for the game, mostly for myself, but my DM gives me an additional experience point when I do the journal entries. Everyone can earn the extra point if they want with an entry of some sort - even random musings or other RP'ish things, but not everyone does. It's just a little added incentive for me to keep it up. I might outpace the others a little bit, but it won't be overly much.