XP by mission vs. kills

Von Ether

Legend
Last night we did a Champions session with GM who gives out xp per mission (though in d20 Star Wars pretty much does the same.) Ordinarly, I don't see much difference, until we scrambling out of a building that was becoming a crowded landing pad for vampires. It was obvious the GM was giving us a "get the hell out" message.

Luckily, I happen to have two magic crossbows for vamp hunting. I aimed at the sky and fired off my "Sunburst" quarrel. Lots of landing vampires became drifting ash. We kept running and went on with the game.

Now in a standard DnD situation, the GM would have had to either figure out the proper CR ... just in case the players came up with something creative like we did. Or the GM would have had to completely hand wave the encounter away so as to not give us a ton of XP for the mass kill.

I'm not saying mission-based XP is the end all, be all. But I've seen several GM's bitterly complain that the PC are rising in level to fast and their only solution is to send out tough stuff. The problem is that if the PC survive these half-hearted attempts at TPK, they end up getting even MORE XP and the cycle continues.

For GMs who want to down play the focus of combat or have a different method of control, Ad Hoc or mission-based XP is an alternative.
 

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I do session-based XP; I could easily see going to mission-based XP especially for shorter campaigns. Keeps players focused on the goal, so to speak.
 

I use mission-based (or "module"-based, to be more accurate) advancement that essentially eliminates the need for tracking XP completely. However, I use a different d20 ruleset than D&D, so I don't have to worry about magic item creation, and other XP-costing activities that would make a paperwork nightmare out of that otherwise. In standard D&D, I think you'll probably run into a few snags with that system due to XP-costing feats, item creation, spells, and other things like that.
 

I actually tend to use fewer high level CR creatures and start having the lower level ones do what they do better.

Ogres fighting and taking advantage of reach.

Lower level mages buffing warriors and other minions before getting out of there.

Humanoids taking their potions and using their one shot items.

When the players win, they don't get tons of experience points nor a lot of magic items. They still win, often times being able to use their feats and spells to maximum benefit, and it's more 'action oriented' as opposed to having to fear the TPK that results in using powerful creatures that award a lot of experience points.

Having said that, I have no problem with story awards, mission awards, or things that do not rely on 'killing' the enemy. I also don't award experience awards for killing an enemy when you were in no danger. Part of a creature's CR is based on how tough it's supposed to be. How many resources fighting it consumes.
 

Ever since d20 came out, I've been partial to mission-based XP. I don't think the CR/EL system works very well, and I dropped it like a hot potato after trying it for an adventure or two. The CR/EL system only works if you have exactly 4 PCs and they are exactly balanced for what the game designers think is normal for that level.

I happen to let my PCs be more powerful than normal, and they also face tougher opponents than normal. If I used the standard CR/EL system, those characters would gain a level every session. That's too fast for me. I prefer to award XP based on accomplishing the mission or not, since I don't happen to believe all XP should be based on combat.

I'm not saying this works for everyone, but it works for the games I run.
 

My players advance at the speed of plot. That is, they gain set amounts of XP when they "accomplish" something, pertaining to an individual's goals or the group's as a whole, be it killing an enemy, opening a door, solving a riddle, surviving a visit to a particularly dangerous place, making their escape just in time ... Also, I have raised the amount of XP needed to advance to next level by about triple.

In the beginning ,there've been complaints from the players: they felt I was keeping them from gaining "their due" XP. After a while, though, everyone became quite comfortable with this: now there can be combat-heavy sessions without the PCs gaining a level per day, and roleplaying-heavy sessions in between which still net XP sometimes. It's all evened out a little bit.
 

I am mentally toying with the idea of doing away with XP altogether, and simply make everyone get a level after each adventure, or something like that. It would be very good for planning campaigns, because you'd know what level the party will be at any future point. But that would pose problems with item creation, and it would also mean that characters that drop a level due to dying or encountering a vampire would be screwed forever.

So I made a semplification which obtains basically the same effect and solves those two problems as well. Each adventure is rated for a specific level. At the end of the adventure, for each character, calculate how much XP he'd get if he defeated alone one creature with the same CR as the adventure's rating. Multiply by 3.4. Broadly, that works out to just a bit more than one level per adventure (thus leaving spellcasters with room for item creation).

This still doesn't deal with absentee players, though.
 

I found a slight problem with kill-based xp is it encourages the pcs to be even more bloodthirsty than normal. I think I prefer some sort of mission-based system. Session-based xp has the drawback that what the pcs actually do becomes less important. They advance at the same rate no matter what.
 

Zappo said:
This still doesn't deal with absentee players, though.
Well, how many XP do you want them to get?

I generally give them none but no PC can fall back below what a new character would get at this point in the campaign.
 

I've offered up the following system to folks a number of times during these discussions. Some have tried it and found they don't like it and some have stuck with it and tailored it to suit their needs. You're welcome to it and feel free to ask questions. One thing I'll guarantee is that you'll spend longer reading it than you ever will again calculating XP after a session. In other words, it may sound complex but once you do it once or twice it is VERY easy.

XP system used by Rel

First, I must note that most of the credit for this system should go to the player who goes by Speaks with Stone on ENWorld. He originally designed it to replace the clunky xp system for Rolemaster and since then, he and I have both tweaked and refined it. It works like this:

First, there's a chart that looks sort of like this:

Character Name:
Level:

Creation
Magic
Social
Combat
Puzzle
Skill
Learned
Sacrifice
Character
Goal
Melee

X = Total=

The players each have a copy of this chart for every session. As we go along they write down things that their character has done in a particular category in the big blank to the right.

At the end of the session, they give me the sheets and I "grade their papers". In doing so, I will put "tic marks" in the small blanks to the left if they have fulfilled the requirements for the category. At the bottom I total up all the marks they received and then apply a multiplier based on their current level (represented by the X in the chart above). Currently, the formula I use for the multiplier is 50+(character level x 15).

On average, I'd say the players get around 7 marks per session. If a 5th level player gets 7 marks they would get 875 experience points for the session (the multiplier for a 5th level character is 125 per the above formula).

In practice this meant that it took around 3 sessions for everyone to make 2nd level. On average, it has taken approximately one session longer to reach each of the successive levels than it did to get to 2nd (i.e. 4 more session to make 3rd, 5 more sessions to make 4th, etc.).

When I say that 7 marks is average for a session, I mean precisely that. There have been sessions where some characters only got 4 or 5 marks. And there have been some sessions where they got 10 or 11 marks. It all depends on how involved you are in the game.

Let me give a few details about how I grade the various categories.

Combat - I usually give out one mark for every "minor" combat the group takes part in and two for a "major" combat. These are rather subjective definitions but I'm comfortable with them.

Enchantment - If a character casts at least half their normal spell allotment or uses the powers of most of their magic items, I give them a mark here. If a character goes through their whole spell selection more than once, I usually give them a second point. It has been argued that this category heavily favors the spell casters over the non spell casters but there are other categories that the spell casters are not as likely to get so that doesn't bother me. YMMV.

Creation - The characters get points here for using any craft skills to create things in the game. Sometimes I have given a point if one character in particular was the mastermind of an elaborate plan. Also, I give points here if the player contributes to the game in a material way, such as painting figures, drawing maps for areas of the campaign the characters know about or bringing extensive background material about a topic important to the game (perhaps some stuff they found about Roman architecture, ancient weaponry, mining techniques or anything else that helps bring detail and life to the campaign).

Skills - This is the category the Rogues love. If a character uses most of their skills during a session, they get credit for it here, provided they aren't already getting credit for it elsewhere.

Puzzle - This category represents the character solving a puzzle in game. It applies to elaborate traps and to unraveling the sinister plot of the evil mastermind. I should mention that I don't have that many elaborate traps in my campaign and the evil masterminds are pretty good at hiding their plots so I don't wind up handing out many points in this category.

Sacrifice - This represents heroism in the face of bad odds, putting your character at risk for innocents or helpless party members or giving up something for the greater good. This is one category in which the fighter types tend to outperform the spell casters.

Learned - This category reflects new information that the party has uncovered that is of general interest or specific importance to the plot. This is one that they get credit for almost every session.

Character - This is another point they should be getting every session because it reflects how they portray the personality of their character. Exhibiting the quirks, flaws and peculiarities of your character will always get you a point here. If you have a session where the quintessential personality of your character is captured in almost every scene, you'll get two points here.

Goal - Characters get points here for accomplishing major party goals as well as minor goals the character sets for themselves. I have the players tell me their goals in advance (or else they don't get credit for them) which gives me an indicator as to which way the campaign will likely be headed.

Social - They get credit mostly for interacting with NPC's in meaningful ways. I don't usually give credit for interactions within the party but I sometimes will if one of the characters shares a story or other details from their background that the other party members didn't already know.

Melee – This category gives credit for those PC’s who engage the enemy directly, placing their hit points and their very lives at risk to guard the rest of the party. To get a point in this category, I require that the PC have been engaged in melee combat for most of the encounters of the session. If the session consisted primarily of combat, I tend to give 2 tics for the melee types here.


I've said it before and I'll say it again: This system may not work for everyone! But I think it has several things going for it that work really well for me and the group I game with.

First, I never have to use the CR system in the DMG to figure out XP. I don't have to crack a book while I'm giving out experience because everything I need is on their sheet or in my head.

Second, it rewards the players for doing things besides combat. If some kind of encounter is important to the campaign, the players don't feel any need to rush through it to get to the combat. They know that they will be rewarded so long as what they're doing is relevant to the story, whether it be fighting monsters, conducting a diplomatic mission, celebrating the birthday of a loved one or doing espionage.

Third, it keeps the players focused on the game if they record stuff on these sheets during play. They may notice that they haven't put anything in the blank next to "Character" yet and that reminds them that they should be putting more of their character's personality into the session. If they haven't put anything in the "Goal" category yet, maybe they need to focus on what the group is trying to accomplish and not get side tracked by looting a room full of dead goblins.

Anyhow, if you have any more questions about the system, I'll be happy to answer them and you're obviously free to use it if you like.
 

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