XP working as intended?

[Kzach]

I don't even track XP anymore - we tried briefly and no one cared. I just tell people when they're getting close to level and pick thematically appropriate spots.

I've always felt that half the fun of playing is levelling and being rewarded for everything you do (right). Without XP, every level becomes a bit anti-climatic don't you think?

 

[Syrsuro]

What I'm finding is that a fairly intelligent group of players will generally handle combats much more tactically and will therefore do much better. This is not necessarily a bad thing, however it means upping the ante in combat scenarios and therefore XP.

Both fights I've put the players through so far have been 700xp encounters with pretty smart foes using solid tactics. That's almost double the 'challenging' encounter XP value for their level. And so far, I've only had one PC go down (the wizard, due mainly to bad positioning when the combat started) and only one PC use a daily.

How are other DM's finding it?

I have to say that if your characters are really ripping through 700 XP encounters with four 1st level characters, I suspect you are probably underplaying your encounters.

But first: Are you players resting after each encounter, or are they taking on all four encounters in one day? If you let them burn on each encounter, then yes - they will be able to take on far more than the system assumes. Since you say they only used one daily, I would assume they aren't, but...

Please tell us about your group and describe some of the encounters they walked all over.

For example - in the warrens encounter, what were the levels of the various NPCs? And did they focus fire on specific targets or scatter their damage round?

Carl

 

[MeMeMeMe]

Are you running the traps as seperate, complete encounters? If so, they aren't worth the experience award. Traps work best as part of an encounter - like an extra monster.

But also, consider the amount of time the players are spending on these 'encounters' - if the traps and skill challenges are engaging the players interest, and taking time to resolve, then they are serving their purpose and maybe it's not so bad.

 

[keterys]

I've always felt that half the fun of playing is levelling and being rewarded for everything you do (right). Without XP, every level becomes a bit anti-climatic don't you think?

Maybe - except I've got multiple groups that prefer to just level up when appropriate. So I guess the math and keeping track isn't worth it anymore.

 

[MrBeens]

This may souond like a silly question (and I am in no way intending this as an insult) but are you dividing the exp up amongst the players - a lot of people when the game first came out were awarding the encounter exp to each character.

That, or maybe you are miscalculating the exp value of the encounters - 4 characters breezing through a 700xp encounter at first level, that is not normal at all.

My group is just coming up to level 4 and we are all experienced roleplayers and have found the equal level encounters a bit too easy, but anything a level or above to be extremly challenging and fun. Each level has been about 7 combat encounters, 2 non combat and some misc roleplaying and quest rewards.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I've always felt that half the fun of playing is levelling and being rewarded for everything you do (right). Without XP, every level becomes a bit anti-climatic don't you think?

Not in my experience. Did this in 3e in a couple of campaigns, worked out well, just level up the players every 3-5 game sessions.

 

[KarinsDad]

My experience has been the same as the OP's.

7-8 encounters and the PCs level. We had a stretch there where we were leveling every other game session. And at the time, we were in dungeons, so we were not getting a lot of non-encounter XP.

The fact remains that people who play their PCs intelligently make the more typical encounters look easy. If the DM ups the difficulty of the encounters to challenge his players, by definition he is decreasing the number of encounters per level.

At first level, if there are 5 PCs and the DM creates 10 500 XP encounters, it takes 10 encounters. If he ups them to 625 XP encounters (one encounter level higher), it takes 8 encounters. There is not a huge difference between 625 XP encounters and 500 XP encounters. In fact, the DMG allows for hard encounters 2 to 4 levels higher than the PCs, but I find 4 levels higher to often be PC killers.

And as a player, I find the encounters lower level than the PCs to be too easy, almost an exercise in dice rolling. Ditto for traps.

 

[Dausuul]

I've always felt that half the fun of playing is levelling and being rewarded for everything you do (right). Without XP, every level becomes a bit anti-climatic don't you think?

I also am following Keterys's system, more or less. The way I do it is to hand out levels upon reaching key plot points. I think this actually makes things more satisfying, because people don't just level up randomly any more - it comes as a reward for a big accomplishment.

So, for example, in my current campaign, the PCs had to work their way through a dungeon under a castle full of hobgoblins, culminating in a battle with a dragon in the final hall. Killing the dragon = level 5. Then they had to infiltrate the castle while it was under siege by orcs, and make arrangements to rescue a group of prisoners while also finding a way to kill the orc warlord. Killing the warlord = level 6. Then they had to escort the prisoners back across the tundra to safety while the hobgoblins and their devil allies gave pursuit. Getting back to town and defeating the hobgoblin chief = level 7. Et cetera.

(A nice side benefit of this system is that it lets me plan much further in advance, because I know what level the PCs will be at any given point.)

 

[keterys]

A nice side benefit of this system is that it lets me plan much further in advance, because I know what level the PCs will be at any given point.

Yeah, I find this a pretty huge benefit myself. I mean, the difference in XP between the group that does the three rooms and heads to the bottom, two rooms and does the final thing, and the one that clears out all 8 on the first level and 8 on the second level (numbers made up)... huge. But you don't want to discourage people from playing smart.

 

[Nail]

So you're saying that they'd not be challenged at all at first level with a 400 xp or even 600 xp encounter? Wow! That's some pretty smart play. In my experience, two or three level 1 critters, 4 minions, and a level 2 or so Artillery or controller would be a pretty challenging encounter. It could be that your players are just ahead of the curve on their tactical savvy.

Any more details about the PCs and maybe the makeup of one of the encounters they zipped through? Some ability scores, the party makeup, and what critters were in the knock-off encounter?

This was exactly my thoughts as well. You must have superb players!

How many PCs?

Party composition?

Tactical situation for one of those encounters?

Etc.

If your players really are that smart, consider yourself lucky.