Yakuza progression and powers

Wicht

Adventurer
I think the Honor powers and progressions has the support it needs - I gave some thought to the Yakuza path which is supposed to basically mirror the Honor path and here is what I got...

The Yakuza Path

Concept: The Yakuza are less concerned with things like good and evil and are more concerned with power, territory and dominance. They are greedy and often mean. Yakuza are sometimes loners but more often they find strength in numbers and gangs.

Ranks and Progression
White Belt: No ranks
Thug: 0-2
Gang boss: 0-4
Gang Lord: 0-6
Warlord: 0-8
Overlord: 0-10
Oyuban: no rank

Special Rules: Yakuza have a buffer rank below their 0 rank, called "Down on Luck," and a second buffer called "Out of Luck" A Gang Boss 0 who loses a fight becomes a Gang Boss-down on luck. Losing another fight will drop that same fighter to Gang Boss-Out of Luck and a third loss will drop them to Thug 2.

A yakuza who beats a yakuza of higher tier in a fight gains not 1 but 2 ranks. A Thug 1 who beats a Gang Boss 1 Becomes a Gang Boss 0 for instance. Yakuza who lose in such fights also drop 2 ranks from the loss.

Thugs who are out of Luck and lose another fight are killed in battle. 7th tier Yakuza who lose a single fight are knocked back down to OverLord 10.

Special Powers and Abilities
Thug: Signature Style, Dirty Trick, Gang Member
Gang Boss: Signature Location, Sneaky Trick, Gang Member
Gang Lord: Signature Location, Dirty Trick, Gang Member
Warlord: Signature Style, Poison Blade, Gang Member
Overlord: Signature Location, Poison Blade, Overlord
[bOyuban:[/b] Signature Location, Poison Blade, Cunning Defense

Explanation for powers:
Signature Style: As for Honor

Signature Location: Like the signature style, the signature location adds 1 point to a successful move. If stacked with a known signature style, the move generates 3 points. Unlike Signature styles, the location grants no immunity

Dirty Trick: A fighter may use a dirty trick once per match per dirty trick known. Doing so requires that the fighter post after their opponent. After the opponent has posted and before they generate their own move, the fighter may declare a dirty trick and force their opponent to generate a new move.

Sneaky Trick Once per match the fighter may change the location of the fight to give a little extra weight to their move. It is not entirely necessary however for the new location to match the latest generated move but it is generally how the power is used.

Poison Blade: Once per match per poison blade possessed the fighter may declare any generated move to be used with a poison blade. If the move is successful the move generates 1 extra point. Only one poisoned blade may be used per round.

Gang Member: When a Yakuza gains a new "Gang member" power they may opt to align themselves with a Yakuza of higher rank, that is of a higher tier. By doing so they may adopt one of their bosses signature locations as their own. As long as their boss and all his underlings have a winning record, the signature location works as normal. If the "gang" has a losing record, there is no effect from being a part of it and the signature location is useless. When the yakuza achieves the next rank themselves, i.e. goes from thug to gang boss, they gain the signature location permenantly. If a gang member wishes to switch gangs or join a new gang they must declare their intention to do so before the start of their next fight and revoke their knowledge of the old sig location. If they win their next fight they may join as normal and adopt a new location.

Overlord: An overlord may at the beginning of a match choose any signature location known by any of their underlings or their underlings' underlings, so on and so forth, and use it as their own signature location for the duration of the match.

Cunning Defense: All attacks against the fighter possessing Cunning Defenses do one less point if successful, i.e. a one point attack does nothing, a two point attack does 1, etc.

 
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graydoom

Villager
Looks good, but I think the extra ranks gained for defeating other Yakuza would make inter-Yakuza strife very common. Is this intentional?
Also, Perfect Defense seems very powerful... do the other paths have abilities to balance it out? And Perfect Defense doesn't really fit the Yakuza, IMO.
 

sineater

Villager
I think the part of having fighting amongst the ranks should stay. Since in the Yakuza they don't tolerate weakness. So hence they will fight to prove they are stronger in order to advance in the eyes of the father of the family (7th tier name).

Also I agree that the perfect defense is a little out of place. I can see it as maybe a path warrior but not a Yakuza. How about something along the oathbound concept.
 

Jackal

Villager
as far as the tier names: you call 6th tier High Warlord and 7th tier Overlord.

And it might be nice for new thugs to have a little space before getting killed. New players won't like getting killed off right away and want people to stick around. So maybe putting a second "Out of Luck" after the first one for a Thug. (or maybe call it something else. And if that fighter wins that fight he goes back to thug 0 just like the white belts.
 

sineater

Villager
For the Oathbound concept how about allowing the lower tiers to be oathbound with the 7th tier until they reach a certain tier.

EX: thugs, and gang boss are the only ones that can be oathbound in order to help them advance in rank. Once they reach gang lord they are no longer oathbound, so they can prove themselves worthy of the position. But when they are oathbound they can only fight outside the Yakuza, not within. If they fight within the ranks they loss there Oathbound with that person for good or until another comes along.

Just throwing an idea out:rolleyes:
 
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Vanor

Villager
Jackal said:
as far as the tier names: you call 6th tier High Warlord and 7th tier Overlord.

And it might be nice for new thugs to have a little space before getting killed. New players won't like getting killed off right away and want people to stick around. So maybe putting a second "Out of Luck" after the first one for a Thug. (or maybe call it something else. And if that fighter wins that fight he goes back to thug 0 just like the white belts.
Personaly I both of these idea's... I think the Yakuza should get a few more buffer ranks, to make things a bit easier on them.

Over all what Witch listed out seems to work for me, I'll agree the perfict defense, does seem powerfull, but consider that a 7th tier honored fighter is throwing 2 point puches with every attack. Which basicly means the two powers cancle each other out. Even a 6th tier honored fighter is likely to throw out several 2 point puches durning a fight.... So it seems balanced to me personaly.

And I think someone in the 7th tier should have a large advantage over anyone below them.
 

Wicht

Adventurer
Okay - the above as I said was a rough draft type brainstorm so I am aware there are a few problems... here are some thoughts/fixes/etc.

Two Buffer Ranks - the First - "Down on Luck", The Second is "Out of Luck". Yakuza must advance out of this one at a time. Yakuza who fight fighters within their tier do not advance 2. Yakuza who can beat other Yakuza of a higher tier go up 2 and the loser goes down 2. Otherwise i got thinking two thugs could just start beating on each other and if they won every other fight or so they would advance way too fast. This rule is to simulate something that 47 once said and then, I think forgot - that if a thug beat up a gang boss they switched ranks (am I the only one remembers he said that to me back when I was the only gang boss). In crime the way to power is over the heads of your bosses. But Yakuza that do this too much will weaken their own selfs as the lower rank fighters will most often lose and eventually die.

As far as Perfect Defense - it is the mirror of Perfect Attack (which is also very powerful) I am not sure why it does not fit the Yakuza who are more interested IMO with staying alive and winning through cunning. It represents this cunning whereas the Honor are all about winning through sheer power, the Yakuza win by denying their opponents any advantage - viewed in this way it is fitting - but if anyone else can suggest a power of equal strength then we are open to suggestions ;) would changing the name to cunning defense or something make it more palatable?

As far as oathbound - I didn't address it (nor is there any rule about adding others wins and losses to your record) because it seems such things could be role rather than rule oriented. Gang Bosses and war-lords are free to make any rules they want for their gangs and kick out any they don't want in - but not having followers will eventually hurt them. Those who remember Wichts rules for villains will also remember that every single villain for some strange reason followed them - I don't know why but its true. They did what they were told even though Wicht had no real in-game way to enforce his will.

But if others want there to be an in-game advantage to it then we can perhaps work on it :p Oh and there has to be an in-game advantage to the one recieving the oath - something I don't feel 47 really had in place - it seemed like the real winners were the ones taking the oath.
 

sineater

Villager
Wicht just thought I would let you know you are doing a great job with the paths so far. I'm sure i'm not the only one that thinks either. So keep up the good work. If there is anything I can help with let me know.:cool:
 

MidKnight

Villager
Wicht, anything there that helps out? I was thinking Oyabun for the 7th tier title, but there were lots of other titles tossed around in that article.
 
With the revisions you posted, Wicht, it's almost perfect.

I'm not sure about every tier (except the Oyabun (7th)) having two buffers... but I guess it's fair since the Honor path - which it mirrors have two. Still, since you are able to rise very quickly in the Yakuza (which is good!), Honor should have a slight advantage regarding the buffers.

Another (and unimportant) thing, but since we've as of yet has held the YB! theme somewhat Chinese-oriented. Perhaps this should be the Triad path?
 

Wicht

Adventurer
MidKnight said:
Wicht, anything there that helps out? I was thinking Oyabun for the 7th tier title, but there were lots of other titles tossed around in that article.
Yeah - Oyabun was what I was thinking too.

As for the chinise triad - yen is also japanese too I believe :) I just like the name Yakuza ;) But I do recognize that the shaolin concept that many seem to use is chinese.

As far as the 2nd buffer rank - Honor actually has three and the ability to drop all disgrace with one win. Both the one win rule and the 2 advancement rule is an attempt to make the game slightly less than a perfect 0 sum game (the newer white belt rules do this as well). I actually think the Honor's buffers are the more desirable of the two as it is possible for one win to effectively replace three losses.

My thoughts for light and dark are this (and you can tell me what you think) light and dark only move between tiers if they lose or win to their enemies. What I mean is the light path only advances to the next tier if they overcome a villain (yakuza or darkness) but they only drop tiers if they lose to a villain at the appropriate time. Or something along those lines and in this case no buffer for those two paths.
 
Thanks for the clarifications. I am 100% for it now. :)

I don't think it is entirely a good idea that Light and Darkness only transcends the tiers when fighting each other as a Light (for example) fighter on the verge of moving to the next lower tier can fight any non-Dark fighter without any risk, and therefore there is no incitament for them to fight a Dark fighter... thus we won't see many Light or Dark fighters ever going down in the tiers. (You also risk the losing on purpose to advance other fighters.)

Conversely, since the Light and Darkness is in opposition I would think it very likely that some sort of pact is made that no one fights a fighter from the other side if that fight could advance the fighter from the other side to next tier. Thus, it might be very hard for the fighters facing promotion to find a fight.
 
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Phoenix8008

Villager
Wicht,

I like these Yakuza rules after the revisions. I would change the name of Perfect Defense to something more in flavor with the Yakuza path. The ability itself is fine though.

I also like you're ideas for gaining and losing ranks and teirs for the Light and Dark paths if I understand them correctly. Is this right: A Light path fighter can gain ranks within a tier by defeating anyone in battle but to go up to the next tier they must defeat a Dark or Yakuza path follower? Also, they have no disgrace ranks, but can only drop to a lower tier if defeated by an enemy path fighter while at the 0 level of their current tier?

If this is right and applies to both Light and Dark paths, then it's great. No longer can the bad guys just sit back and wait to pick off white belts. They would have to fight to advance as well! Now there would be good reason to be battling between the Light and Dark on regular occasion! Awesome!! :D

Although it does make it hard for a Light or Dark path fighter to drop tiers as they could just avoid fighting an enemy at that time. Maybe a bigger penelty for losing to an enemy path fighter could be used?
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
Left-handed Hummingbird said:
Conversely, since the Light and Darkness is in opposition I would think it very likely that some sort of pact is made that no one fights a fighter from the other side if that fight could advance the fighter from the other side to next tier. Thus, it might be very hard for the fighters facing promotion to find a fight.
If they did this then all of them would stay in the first tier of their paths as both sides need to beat an enemy to go up a tier. The only other problem I see is if there is a vastly unequal amount of fighters on one side or the other. If the current YB landscape were translated into these rules, no Light path fighter could advance until there was some evil to fight in the land.

Maybe we need to have some NPC's created when YB resets to rectify this. Have a list of generic fighters (one for each tier in each path? or at least for the light and dark?) until someone's PC fighter reaches that level, then they dissapear to meditate forever more like Nemm? ;) Anybody could play the opposing NPC fighter if they needed to fight someone for advancement I guess. Would that work?
 

Wicht

Adventurer
The rules have been edited to add...

Oyuban as the 7th tier name, the second buffer and changed Perfect Defense to Cunning Defense.

Is Poison Blade alright As +1 or should it be +2 to make the path more balanced with Honor?
 
Phoenix8008 said:
If they did this then all of them would stay in the first tier of their paths as both sides need to beat an enemy to go up a tier.
Exactly! Why would you help your enemy? No, this in addition to the problem of never going down in tiers if you don't fight the wrong people, really makes me think this is a bad idea.

Phoenix8008 said:
Maybe we need to have some NPC's created when YB resets
hmmm... I'm not sure I think that is a good idea.
 

Phoenix8008

Villager
Left-handed Hummingbird said:
Exactly! Why would you help your enemy? No, this in addition to the problem of never going down in tiers if you don't fight the wrong people, really makes me think this is a bad idea.
It's not a matter of helping your enemy, it's helping yourself. If a Dark path fighter wants to advance, he WILL try to fight a Light path or Honor follower to do so. The same for the Dark fighters in reverse. They could even fight only the Honor/Yakuza sides and still advance while not helping their most hated enemies. What if the rules were changed so that they could drop a tier from losing to anybody, but could only advance by beating an enemy?

As for the NPC's, it was just an idea off the top of my head when I thought about what would happen right after the reset with the possibility of no enemies to fight.

Wicht, what is your plan for access to the Light and dark paths? Can anyone get to them straight from White belt? That would be optimum I think. I know I disliked having to go and open a Dojo when I knew I was just going to close it soon anyway.
 

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