[YB meta] Sash (and Yakuza) progression...

graydoom

First Post
For Tier 4, I seesawed between keeping even on losses and losing a bit of money. With a failed crowd pleaser (all but three of my crowd pleaser's have failed so far) and a yen move that I won (if I was lucky), I could keep even on yen after a loss... if I didn't spend any to Bribe Judges during the fight.

For some experimental data, try this out. During my time in tier 4, I lost four times. In terms of yen, for those losses I went even, lost 4, gained 2, lost 2. Overall, I guess that means that I averaged 1 yen lost per fight I lost.

For fights I win, I tend to gain a good deal. A crowd pleaser move usually nets me at least 2, and I usually get at least 2 yen from my opponent. For the five wins I had in tier 4, I netted 6, 6, 8, 4, and 8, respectively. That puts my average per fight won as a bit over 6. Overall, my total average per fight is 28 yen total gained divided by 9 fights total, for a tiny bit over 3 yen per match. If I hadn't been lucky, it probably would have been less than that. Also, I used Bribe Judges only very rarely. I think I used it all of twice... most of my losses were pretty crushing.

Tier 5 I've only had one fight so far, so we really can't tell anything yet.

IMO, part of the problem with sash is making the low ranks strong enough (low ranks are pretty weak... I got so lucky in getting through them without a loss) while not making the high ranks too strong. Raising Purchased Power is a definite good start... 5 yen is way too low for it. And on crowd pleaser... reducing it's yield for losses will hurt a lot. If it becomes 1/4 yen for a lost/won move, my revenue from it will be almost cut in half (remember, I've won exactly 3 crowd pleaser moves so far :(). But really, the best thing might be to try it that way, and see how it goes. Once we see how I (and other sashes) do after the changes for yb2.1, we can re-evaluate things and make more adjustments if necessary.
 

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reiella

Explorer
Aye, exactly Wicht. Myself somewhat lucky in that respect, because despite my luck, I at least was able to show some statistical weakness (at least I hope I showed that :p). Balance is generally difficult in these environments, but it is still a good sign that it isn't as blatantly obvious as mercenery tactics was in YB1 (great idea in theory... but well... didn't turn out well sadly ;x). Another thing to consider is that almost all sashes are going to have items, while their opponents may or may not have an equally powered item.

[ Slightly Hijacked and off topic ]
The higher tiers I think would be a slight bit difficult to adjucate (tier 7 at least) mostly as there really isn't much need to continue playing at tier 7. Would it be worthwhile to consider some mechanic to encourage people at the 'end' to actually continue playing (and possibly require that they meet people who challenge their standings as the Big Cheese)? Not really sure on any suggestions beyond forcing them to at least answer challenges to their standings.
 

Wicht

Hero
I think we will have to see what happens when people reach that height of power. I am somewhat suprised that the levels that have been reached already have been but with the new rules game play really picked up again.

Personally I think that what will happen is those characters will become reserve characters but it is hard to say. A problem in the old rules was that after about the fourth tier there was really nothing to reach for and at that point the paths were so unbalanced that most people retired or retired their characters (with only a few exceptions)

One goal that higher tier characters can work on now is the amassment of wealth and the construction of weapons (which gives a reason for purposely seeking out sash.
 

reiella

Explorer
*nod* That should work for most part (less so for Yen path, and people who beat up on Yen path like meowth :).

Forced combat (against someone valid to replace your standing) might be worth noting just so there's some activity up there.

One other note, to be eligible for Tier 7 advancement you just need to be in the situation where if you beat the current tier 7 you would be at tier 7 correct?

For example, most pathes would need to be 6th Tier-9 (+1 rank from winning, +1 rank from opponent being one tier higher). And Yakuza needing only be Overlord-8 (+1 rank from winning, +1 rank from opponent being one tier higher, +1 rank from opponent yakuza being higher tiered). Correct?
 

Wicht

Hero
reiella said:
One other note, to be eligible for Tier 7 advancement you just need to be in the situation where if you beat the current tier 7 you would be at tier 7 correct?

Assuming someone is actively in that tier, correct.

Likely most people at tier 7 will fight to defend their position, but I can see where a rule to the effect that a tier 7 fighter must accept all challenges from a 6th tier fighter of the same path would be useful (or else they forfeit their rank). Especially considering the distinct possibility of someone reaching that tier and then having "beaten" the game quitting, making it impossible for anyone else to advance.
 


reiella

Explorer
Just be sure to give them an extended amount of time to respond (longer than the 'auto-default' length... maybe ~ a week? or half a week... also prolly should have a master judge or such e-mail the 'champion' so they realize they have been challenged and don't miss it in the quickly moving fight scene).

And the mechanic for 'forfeit'? They drop down as if they had forfeited the match and the challenger advances? (Again send an email to the former 'champion' to realize their rank changed)

Losing tier 7 doesn't hurt all too much, even over a vacation, because no matter what, when you drop, you're still valid to challenge the new tier 7 for the tier, only lost your 7th item power possibly ( and the perfect bonus, which may hurt ).
 

Wicht

Hero
I don't know if I would make it a forfiet per say. That would seem an awful cheesy way to get a 7th tier spot. I would just make it mean the spot is now open. And yes 72-96 hours to respond at least would be a good idea.
 

reiella

Explorer
Hmm, ok that works.

Would the existing Tier 7 go down to Tier 6-10 when the position is declared open? Or when someone else actually advances to Tier 7? As said a bit above, you can advance to Tier 7 when there is one currently at Tier 6-9 (or Overlord-8).

The first (they go down before someone can actually replace them) seems a bit irky as it could be likly that dismiss the existing Tier 7 who could return before someone replaces him (although admittantly they would be probably be in a better position to regain Tier 7). It would also result in a semi-easy way for Tier 7 fighters to change their signature style/location for that teir.

Either way I don't care all too much either way just asking to know and so that it is asked.

[ Edit: Err forgot all pathes get a sig style at tier 7 except yakuza who get a sig loc instead. oopsie ]
 
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