Yes, 'The Algorithm' REALLY IS Like That

[DammitVictor]

I’m not a US Consitutional Scholar but you stop kids under 16 being able to do other things that are protected for adults under the constitution? So there are some fundamental rights that are curtailed for minors for safety reasons. You don’t let a 12 year old buy a gun right? Or get married?

Did you just compare the ability to engage in anonymous political dissent with buying a pack of cigarettes?

 

[TheSword]

Did you just compare the ability to engage in anonymous political dissent with buying a pack of cigarettes?

I think there are two different points I made that people consider controversial.

One is restricting social media to 16+ age and the other was requiring ID for a social media account and then only being applied to a verified named person.

The restricting age restriction was compared to buying cigarettes, drinking, driving a car, getting married, owning a gun etc. Some things are too dangerous for kids, and/or they lack the capacity to make informed choices about them.

 

[Cergorach]

There’s no privacy of children information because children wouldn’t be able to join.

It is when the norm is that you need to be 15+ (Netherlands is going to implement this this way), all 15-17 year olds are still considered kids. 14+ people are required to carry an ID in the Netherlands.

The European data regulations use a set of digital ethical principles. Right to erasure. Lawful use of data only. Right of data portability. It is not impossible to agree a set of modern ethics to handle online affairs. Even between dozens of countries.

I can tell you from experience that the theoretical rights we have do not always translate (correctly) to reality. Both individual people and companies/organizations often make a gut check or analyses of getting caught and cost of a fine vs. cost of fixing xyz (that they should do according to the rules). And the rules in the EU have individual implementations in each country.

86% of UK citizens have a Passport. But irrespective every UK citizen has a birth certificates.
You can’t open a bank account in the UK without these things.

Sure, but would you want all kinds of organizations that have a record of not taking privacy as serious as some, to have a copy of those documents? I also wonder how they would check a photographed copy?

Recently I was mailed by an organization called Odido, they had a cyber intrusion and my data was captured. I had never heard of the organization, I later learned that it was the rebranded name of the Dutch (independent) branch of Tele2 and T-Mobile, of which I was a customer many, many years ago. We have rules about how long a company can hold onto private data, which was far past the point I was last a customer of them... And these shenanigans aren't unique.

But in the Netherlands we've had DigiD (Digital iDentity) for a while now, it's a government owned digital identification platform, we use it for submitting our taxes, but also non-government companies use it for identification, things like hospitals, insurance, etc. Some of the other EU countries have similar solutions... And it can be used for age verification like: Is this person 15+ years old? As this digital identity is connected to a single person, no one else should be able to use the ID of someone else, thus no further information would be required (no name, location, etc.).

DigiD - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Morrus]

86% of UK citizens have a Passport. But irrespective every UK citizen has a birth certificates.

I have a birth certificate but I have no idea where it is and have not seen or needed it at any point that I recall. Maybe I’ve forgotten something.

Sure, but would you want all kinds of organizations that have a record of not taking privacy as serious as some, to have a copy of those documents? I also wonder how they would check a photographed copy?

Banks are incredibly heavily regulated. That’s why we trust them with so much. The average social media website is, of course, nowhere near as regulated.

 

[Umbran]

Driving license is common. Utility bills and bank statements are also common. Passports, of course (if you have one). Sounds similar to your setup.

A quick search suggests that for you, driver's licenses com from a national level agency - the DLVA - is that correct?

If so, we have 50 different agencies, so verification would be a different problem here than there.

 

[Morrus]

A quick search suggests that for you, driver's licenses com from a national level agency - the DLVA - is that correct?

If so, we have 50 different agencies, so verification would be a different problem here than there.

DVLA, but yes.

 

[Ryujin]

A quick search suggests that for you, driver's licenses com from a national level agency - the DLVA - is that correct?

If so, we have 50 different agencies, so verification would be a different problem here than there.

It would likely take RealID*with national database access, to qualify, I would think.

* In the US.

 

[Umbran]

And the rules in the EU have individual implementations in each country.
86% of UK citizens have a Passport. But irrespective every UK citizen has a birth certificates.

About half of US citizens have a valid passport.

In the US, birth certificates are handled on the municipal (town) level. To get a copy of mine at this point, I would have to go to the city hall of the town for the hospital I was born in.

And it wouldn't help, because they aren't machine readable/verifiable anyway.

 

[DammitVictor]

I think there are two different points I made that people consider controversial.

One is restricting social media to 16+ age and the other was requiring ID for a social media account and then only being applied to a verified named person.

It seems to me that one of your proposals depends on the other, and that you're using the "for the children" to avoid talking about the danger your policy would be exposing adults to.

 

[Cergorach]

Banks are incredibly heavily regulated. That’s why we trust them with so much. The average social media website is, of course, nowhere near as regulated.

Yes they are, but that doesn't mean they are perfect either. I've worked for a couple of banks for almost a decade and I know that one of them had issues with requiring copies of IDs they legally weren't allowed to demand. And we recently had a huge issue with a telecom provider that was hacked, that's a big problem already, but it happens, the biggest issue was that they kept personal information longer then legally allowed. Every company/organization has it's issues, but if the requirement is age verification, you don't need anything else then is this person older the X? Yes or no? And your data is stored by the only organization that requires it, the government.