Yes, 'The Algorithm' REALLY IS Like That

[TheSword]

It seems to me that one of your proposals depends on the other, and that you're using the "for the children" to avoid talking about the danger your policy would be exposing adults to.

Sorry what danger are adults being exposed to that they aren’t already exposed to? Having their ID stolen? People already have to submit their ID to a huge range of organizations.

Furthermore if you are suspicious of a specific company that you otherwise feel obliged to use. Then there are alternatives. For instance the Disclosure Barring Service gives you a reference number when you complete a criminal records check. All you give the employer is the number (not all the ID and data required to obtain the number).

To be clear though. Age verification is not the same as ID verification.

 

[Umbran]

The restricting age restriction was compared to buying cigarettes, drinking, driving a car, getting married, owning a gun etc. Some things are too dangerous for kids, and/or they lack the capacity to make informed choices about them.

The problem is that all those things you are talking about are operations on the state or local level. Methods of handling verification are optimized for doing so in person.

Social media systems cross state and national boundaries. That means they are national and international jurisdiction, and would require doing verification remotely. The US simply isn't prepared to support that at this time.

 

[TheSword]

About half of US citizens have a valid passport.

In the US, birth certificates are handled on the municipal (town) level. To get a copy of mine at this point, I would have to go to the city hall of the town for the hospital I was born in.

And it wouldn't help, because they aren't machine readable/verifiable anyway.

i guess that’s a problem for America to grapple with. The rest of the world can enforce rules in their own jurisdictions.

With respect we probably aren’t looking to you to lead the way in protecting our citizens. There is absolutely no way these (almost entirely) American companies are not going to self regulate. The only thing is legal mandate followed by the threat of losing access to a huge market.

 

[Morrus]

Yes they are, but that doesn't mean they are perfect either.

Sure. Odd thing to say, but sure.

 

[Morrus]

The problem is that all those things you are talking about are operations on the state or local level. Methods of handling verification are optimized for doing so in person.

Social media systems cross state and national boundaries. That means they are national and international jurisdiction, and would require doing verification remotely. The US simply isn't prepared to support that at this time.

Of course, that’s a choice. The US certainly has the resources to do that. You already do it with passports.

 

[DammitVictor]

Sorry what danger are adults being exposed to that they aren’t already exposed to? Having their ID stolen? People already have to submit their ID to a huge range of organizations.

Being persecuted by oppressive regimes for attending protests, whistleblowing, and promoting human rights/social justice causes. I'll not go into details here, and I shouldn't have to; to avoid speaking of contemporary politics, we're not two generations removed from this threat applying to both of our home countries, and not even one generation removed from it applying to the majority of the human population.

 

[TheSword]

The problem is that all those things you are talking about are operations on the state or local level. Methods of handling verification are optimized for doing so in person.

Social media systems cross state and national boundaries. That means they are national and international jurisdiction, and would require doing verification remotely. The US simply isn't prepared to support that at this time.

Not necessarily, you can use a scan of a hard copy to verify in a world of smart phones and scanning. I’ve seen several working examples of this. Not least of which verifying Covid test status for flights which a few million people completed in every county and jurisdiction in the world in a relatively short time frame.

 

[TheSword]

Being persecuted by oppressive regimes for attending protests, whistleblowing, and promoting human rights/social justice causes. I'll not go into details here, and I shouldn't have to; to avoid speaking of contemporary politics, we're not two generations removed from this threat applying to both of our home countries, and not even one generation removed from it applying to the majority of the human population.

They are all good reasons for anonymity but I’m sorry that doesn’t trump the safety of the rest of the world. There are other ways of coordinating aside from Facebook, instagram, twitter etc. Encrypted messaging groups for instance.

What good is it toppling oppressive regimes in some parts of the world if social media permits or assists the rise of oppressive regimes elsewhere. People should have the basic right to know the origin country of the post they are reading.

 

[Cergorach]

Sure. Odd thing to say, but sure.

What I was trying to say was that before Facebook or Twitter even existed we had major privacy issues with banks, stuff we've had since with companies like Facebook and Twitter... I'm pretty certain that quite a few banks are happy with social media companies working as distractions...

 

[Umbran]

i guess that’s a problem for America to grapple with. The rest of the world can enforce rules in their own jurisdictions.

Sure. For example, the UK has the Online Safety Act of 2023, which came into effect in July of 2025. This is their second attempt at requiring age verification (for adult content, not for social media, in general). The first version got passed, but nobody could implement in time, and so it fell over, sank into the swamp, and was repealed.

When Ofcom tried to fine 4chan for non-compliance, 4chan effectively laughed at them, noting how they have no jurisdiction to fine a non-UK company.

Facebook still doesn't comply, but is supposedly working on it.

X does comply - it does so by having users submit an image of a government ID, and a live selfie that is age-verified by AI.

Never mind that X is currently being sued for Grok producing child porn based on real kids - it is still perfectly trustworthy with your ID and image. Never mind that fake IDs are easy to get (at least in the US, maybe it is harder for Brits). Never mind that you can apparently bypass the image verification using images of videogame characters. Never mind that all of it can be bypassed with a VPN.

Sure, that's all working just fine.