D&D (2024) YOU are in charge of the next PHB! What do you change?

[Parmandur]

I think people are just spitballing because the weird WOTC survey and because thinking about this stuff is just what EN world does! Personally while I like 5e I have played it enough to a) see its problems clearly and b) be open to new options and ideas - even if that means a new edition.

For me, it's the Tasha's Lineagw changes and the Subclasses that go across Classes in the Srrixhave UA. Those are sufficient great ideas that I'd want to see baked into Core.

 

[jasper]

Cut the number of OFFICAL races in half. Remove darkvision from half the remaining races.
Insert death by max age. Cut the life of long live races by half. So Elf only live to maybe 600.
Floating +2, +1 would option and no non human race would have more+2,+1.So mountain dwarf is getting nerfed.
No Trace or other thingy which allows a long rest in 4 hours.
Encounters geared for 3 to 5 per day and change the stat blocks as necessary.
Soul/health siphon on all the books. As y'all read and play, I get healthier and more rich.

 

[Sithlord]

The 3/4 Caster is actually an interesting idea that remains unexplored in the game.

They are basically full casters without the 9th level slot in 5E. That’s is. I think the original poster on the 3/4th caster was making a joke.

 

[Parmandur]

They are basically full casters without the 9th level slot in 5E. That’s is. I think the original poster on the 3/4th caster was making a joke.

Maybe they were, but a character who gets that 3/4 progression in exchange for something else is legitimate design space that is a visible gap in the DMG charts on Spell progression.

 

[Shardstone]

IMHO, part of my own problem with the Bard is that there is a LOT of conceptual "mental magic" overlap with the Wizard Enchanter and the Wizard Illusionist or even the Arcane Trickster. Sometimes I get the feeling that the Wizard occupies almost too much monopolized conceptual space around magic in the game. I almost wonder if one generalized mind magic class would suffice. I have something in mind here like the Guild Wars 1 & 2 Mesmer. Then to make it a "bard," one grabs the Entertainer or Bard background.

I'm just spit-balling here, and this does not reflect how I would do a revised 5e, but, rather, me just throwing my thoughts out there like paint splattered on the wall.

I think you're right that the Wizard takes up too much magical space.

 

[Aldarc]

I think this is misunderstanding why people play Bards if you're thinking they'd just switch to "mind mage". You're looking at concepts that have later been applied to Bards, and working outwards from there, not to like, why the class exists or what people actually want from it. It's a common issue and it's why the 3E Bard existed and was so extremely bad ("people play this dumb class because they suck and just want to sing dumb songs, right?" seems to be the 3E attitude lol).

What people want from a Bard is absolutely not "mind magic" as some central focus. That might be what a lot of people want from, say, a Psion, or Mesmer/Enchanter, or even, dare I say it, a Wizard, but in general people aren't saying "Yo I want to mind-control people and crush their wills and force them to do my dark bidding!" and picking "Bard" as a class unless their next step is to pick one of two specific colleges (out of eight possible - "I wanna fight in melee" is equally popular as a college theme, note - Valor and Swords).

What most people want from Bard is a diverse class that can do a lot of things, is clearly strongly magical, is okay with a sword in their hand (at least to look good, if not to be super-effective), has a lot of skills, knows lore, probably has some element of musical theme-ing (though this is likely not dominating everying), and probably has abilities to help other people out. They're looking for a "master of none"-kind of character, not Mandrake, Master of Illusions (enemies crumble in fear and confusion!). Yeah mind-control spells are probably in the mix, but that's more because 3E wanted to stop Bards casting Fireball or the like (you sure as hell could in 2E, I did all the time), in case precious Wizards got upset.

You can see this through the various editions:

1E's Bard is a mess, but is clearly expressing the "master of none, decent at several" theme. I understand there's one in a Dragon issue which is a lot closer to the 2E one.
2E's Bard is a true Jack-of-all-Trades - and then the kits which come out express different Bardic themes wonderfully - you will notice how few are music-first, but rather refer back to storytellers, loremasters, performers, and so on.
3E's Bard is an inversion of this design, going from master of none to bad at all, a pointless support class who is roundly inferior to a Cleric even at that. This is part of 3E's general hostility to 2E, and attempts to "wind the clock back".
3.5E's Bard tried to fix this, and improved the situation, but didn't get all the way, and then Pathfinder just trashed Bards again (and yes I have played a PF Bard).
4E's Bard went back to looking at what players wanted through a 4E lens of roles - it gave Bard the Leader role with the Controller secondary, which was a good approach, and expressed a general Jack-of-all-trades style, with a lot of helping people and a lot of flashy magic - most of it not mind-control or music.
5E's Bard perfectly understands what Bard players have wanted and has been pretty iconic of 5E (esp. among younger players) as a result. It's a Jack-of-all-trades again - yes it's most powerful as a caster, and close in power to other casters, but its spell list and other limitations keep it under control, and the various themes are expressed through the Bard subclasses - again, the majority of them are not about mind-magic or even music. Speech is actually the main theme, I'd say - "Words of..." abilities being common. Only the Glamour and Whispers subclasses really seem mind-magic-oriented.

Anything that ends up with the Bard "focused" on a specific thing like "mind magic" or "buffing others" and little else is not really going to be a D&D Bard because the dilettante spirit is part of their concept. I do think them being a full caster in 5E is a bit of a kludge, but the only real way to fix it would be to make major changes to other parts of the game to stop slot-based spells stealing so many concepts for magic and reduce the top-end power of casters. Several (most?) classes in 5E have design elements that are a bit kludge-y and speak to them being finished in a hurry, and Bard is one of the least-bad cases.

This reads like a gish gallop of condescension. I don't care for it one bit.

 

[AnotherGuy]

For starters

1. Implement the silver standard.
2. No dead ability scores (i.e. give purpose to the odd numbers)

 

[Parmandur]

I think you're right that the Wizard takes up too much magical space.

Well, there was an early experiment being done by Mearls to make a Psion that worked by manipulating Concentration and using Spell Slots as a magnifying resource. That's something wild enough that paring the idea down to a 3/4 caster gold make sense.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This reads like a gish gallop of condescension. I don't care for it one bit.

Your whole "people who want Bards just want Mind Mages, we should delete their class and replace it with Mind Mages who just like, took a Background" is completely condescending and makes vast and sweeping assumptions, so it's pure hypocrisy to say that lol.

 

[Aging Bard]

1E's Bard is a mess, but is clearly expressing the "master of none, decent at several" theme. I understand there's one in a Dragon issue which is a lot closer to the 2E one.

I assume you are referring to Dragon #56. That version of Bard drops thieving abilities, which I do not like, but is otherwise fine. Frankly, the very original Bard from Strategic Review Vol. II No. 1 was solid, very much the jack-of-all-trades. The mess of 1e seems to have been a way to limit its fighter level, but that could have been done more simply as a single-class character.