You can't win this encounter

[FrogReaver]

Neither do I. I do believe that "we're already in combat" is mutually exclusive with "we are starting discussion with avoiding combat", which is the position Mistwell kept starting with earlier in this thread.

Blame the OP then. He opened his post with an example of attacking the dragon and failing to hit on a 19. That's clearly a combat example. Mistwell started by responding to the OP and focusing primarily on that combat example. Note that it was you that responded to Mistwell first and not the other way around. But what's more interesting is that yet again you appear to agree with that basic premise of what Mistwell and I are saying - that it's often difficult to flee mid-combat.

And yes - one can avoid combat without need to flee mid combat. I fully agree there. That fleeing is difficult mid-combat has no bearing on whether the combat could have been avoided in the first place.

 

[S'mon]

I might describe something as 'very powerful', but generally I just expect the players to evaluate when to run away. They did a good job last night, all but one deciding to flee right away from some orcs & a bar-lgura - and a PC with hill giant str from potion picking up & carrying the one who refused to flee.

 

[turnip_farmer]

Regarding the sentiment that 5e needs more robust rules for fleeing, what might those look like? I've seen various mechanics proffered over the past few years, but most just seems to add more complexity(..)

Why do people overthink these things?

"What do you do?"
"I run away!"
"Make a Something-or-Other check."
"I rolled very high!"
"Hooray, you succeed!"

I mean, you can throw in some complications to make it more interesting, but I don't see why you need any special rules for running away.

 

[Grogg of the North]

Why do people overthink these things?

"What do you do?"
"I run away!"
"Make a Something-or-Other check."
"I rolled very high!"
"Hooray, you succeed!"

I mean, you can throw in some complications to make it more interesting, but I don't see why you need any special rules for running away.

I rolled poorly/middling.
The monster is catching up!
I toss caltrops behind me.
You get away!

In my experience, most GMs recognize that you got screwed by the dice. Having any sort of plan to deal with it results in them letting you succeed.

 

[pemerton]

In my experience, most GMs recognize that you got screwed by the dice. Having any sort of plan to deal with it results in them letting you succeed.

This does make me wonder, then, why call for the check?

 

[el-remmen]

My players usually know because I jump on on my chair like it was the ropes and I'm leaning against the turnbuckle, slam my fists against my chest, and bellow my DM catchphrase for tough encounters, "TIME FOR THE OLE ROMP 'EM STOMP 'EM!!!"

 

[S'mon]

Why do people overthink these things?

"What do you do?"
"I run away!"
"Make a Something-or-Other check."
"I rolled very high!"
"Hooray, you succeed!"

I mean, you can throw in some complications to make it more interesting, but I don't see why you need any special rules for running away.

Yes, I do this - if success is not automatic. Generally speaking I don't think D&D handles chase scenes well, so I abstract them into a single roll resolution same as eg the evasion %s in 1e AD&D.

 

[S'mon]

This does make me wonder, then, why call for the check?

Not all players are capable of coming up with a plausible plan. If the enemy are pursuing and it does not look like escape is automatic - eg some monsters are faster than the slowest PCs - then I think there should be a chance for PCs to be caught & killed. At the very least, the more quick thinking players need to come up with a way to save the laggards. There should be an impression of danger but I'm not overly concerned* with killing fleeing PCs unless the situation is really bad, eg they're in the open being hunted by a flying dragon. In that kind of worst case scenario they may need to scatter or choose to TPK together.

*This works both ways - fleeing enemies usually escape too, unless the PCs are unusually determined to hunt them down. I'd say around 90% of the time when PCs or enemies flee the battlefield, they escape OK. Exceptions tend to be slow, high priority targets without stealth, eg I remember in a 4e game around 2010 the PCs chased down and killed a hobgoblin commander they were really keen on getting.

 

[Ulfgeir]

We had a situation yesterday where the GM had to explicitly point out to us that we could not win that fight at the time. We will be able to take on that opponent in the end-game.. When ALL* characters in the campaign are present and figthing that one opponent. The game was Tianxia: Blood, Jade & Silk

* Technically 35 characters. 5 different groups of 7 characters each. Though one intended player is not playing with us over the net, so his intended characters are NPC's (whom we have only encountered 1 or 2 I think).

 

[GMMichael]

We had a situation yesterday where the GM had to explicitly point out to us that we could not win that fight at the time. We will be able to take on that opponent in the end-game.. When ALL* characters in the campaign are present and figthing that one opponent. The game was Tianxia: Blood, Jade & Silk

(Knowing nothing about Tianxia) why didn't you recognize when an opponent would require five times your party's strength to be defeated?

It was thoughtful of your GM to warn you, but I'd rather hear something like, "so, Michael, your character heard about the last party that the EndGameBoss destroyed. That party had four heroes for every one in yours. A little angel on your shoulder says you might consider sitting this fight out."

Then, true to form, my party (but not my character) would try to fight the boss anyway, despite my warnings. In the words of David Gilmour: you know, you just can't win.