you drew the short end of the stick

[Ogre Mage]

To me, that depends on the level of the game. At higher levels, the stat array gets less important in many cases (also depending on class - avoidign a class with multiple ability dependency is vital for this character) due to magic items, spells and other enhancements. As the average stat goes up in the party, the difference in the starting array becomes proportionally less.

Being shortchanged in stats does not mean you will be a sidekick. A psion or blast-mage can still be effective at mid to high levels with the stat array in question, since the vast majority of their abilities are based on a single stat, and they have the backup of an otherwise functional party who understands the need for meat-shields.

90% of the games I have played in started at either Level 1 or 2. The lesser points would limit your class options and you WOULD be a sidekick, even with a class that didn't have MAD. In fact, given how sad wizards are already at that level, they might as well be Orko on "He-Man." We had this situation in one of our games -- two fighters, but one with markedly inferior stats. Mr. Low Stats was constantly outshone by Mr. High Stats.

 

[Blood Jester]

No.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Hell no.
My good friend Dave would insist that he'd do it for the RP opportunity, and that having a PC with high stats hurts roleplaying. However, as soon as actual play started and he was being outgunned by the other PCs...
Yeah.

Maybe it's because I'm stuck playing with some younger people that are power-whores of the highest caliber, but playing someone with lower stats in the same game as one of them with high stats would auto-engage my grind teeth function.
Is it just me, or is this a common problem with kids that played Video RPGs before ever touching a pen & paper one? They seem to think it's all about increasing your power level... I guess it's hard to really roleplay when the other player is a silicon chip. And if they can't power-up fast enough, there's always cheat codes...

Slightly off topic: A couple of them are also brazen cheaters of the most foul kind, so playing second fiddle to them because I wouldn't cheat too was very irritating.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Not only would I play 11 points short, I'd make it a point of honor to outperform the higher point PC's.
Smart tactics and intelligent roleplay beats raw power hands down every time.

And as everyone knows, folks who choose to play the 36-point buy characters are the stupidest, most inept tacticians and roleplayers, every time.

If the DM required me to play a significantly weaker character than everyone else, I'd demand a very good reason for this, and I can't imagine what such a good reason might be. If I didn't get a good reason, I'd conclude that such a capriciously anti-Orsal DM is not one I want to play with.

"Because in one two-minute span, when we all sat down to roll ability scores, 4d6 drop the lowest, you rolled the crappiest. And now you are stuck with that forever, and everyone else deserves to outshine you."

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Right on.

The first character I ever played long-term was named Karadd-Tak of Arabel. He entered an average 5th level group as a 1st level (2nd ed.), true neutral mage. Not too dissimilar from the 25-pointer in the group of 36ers.

Uh, no that is not the same thing at all. It is only a matter of a few thousand XP and you will be, at worst, a level behind your fellow PCs. Of course your DM was being a dick to bring in a 1st level PC to a 5th level game to bgin with.

I hired a henchman. I kept my head down. When the other PCs made it clear that I was to be their whipping boy, I made a secret pact with the Red Wizard who was traveling with the party (by his own mandate, of course). Tensions continued to rise. When things came to a head, I was on the winning side. The other PCs ended up dead, or on their own for a short time before ending up dead.

My character, on the other hand, forged a mighty empire in the Forgotten Realms before eventually ascending to godhood in another sphere. (Suck on that, other PCs!)

I think this shows a different manner of gaming than I am used to. I hate inter party conflict that end up with one side dead and the other side crowing about how 'el33t' they are. But to each their ow...

If it fit the character concept, you bet I'd do it. Frankly, I think those that refuse are saying more about their own skills as a role-player than they are about "fairness."

Oh. The people wanting a balanced group (the one and only reason to use point buy) are the weak role players. Right. Cling to that.

 

[IronWolf]

Oh. The people wanting a balanced group (the one and only reason to use point buy) are the weak role players.

One and only reason? I must use point buy for all the wrong reasons then.

I use point buy in campaigns I run to allow the player's to have character classes they want. The point buy gives them some control of how high they want to go and the score distribution they want. Sometimes a roll of the dice would work to their advantage better, but not in others. With point buy they know what they get to work with (whether it's a 25 point buy or 32 point buy or something in between.

I also use point buy to allow player's to roll up their characters in offtime between sessions. We only get to play every two weeks, so short of the very first session dedicated to character generation we prefer to not spend valuable sesssion time rolling up characters. Point buy allows this to happen without the need for the DM to watch the dice rolls.

I am sure some DM's use it for balance, but not all.....

 

[megamania]

I personally would avoid it. It does matter in the long run. There are times where it is all about rolling; not role playing and in this case the 32 point buy has an advantange. Some people are better at strategy and the such but sometimes unknown factors come out that erode even the best plans into so much crap and forces one to fight or sneak out. To have lower stats in general sucks in this case.

If the DM is about role playing only, then you can have the stats of a commoner and possibly do better. But...would you? 12 point vs 32 point?

 

[Coredump]

I used to play Magic a lot. And with 3.0 and 3.5 I see a bunch of the same influences.

The rules seemed geared toward a competition. The bad guys use only the same rules/abilities as the good guys. Abiilties are bought to keep things even, etc.
Uber-Balance seems to be a new sacred cow.

Try this, give people a certain number of points to spend (say 75-80), and let them place them 1-1 as ability points. Then render them down to their point-buy equivalents. I *bet* you they will not be the same.

There are too many variables in DnD. Even if you start with the same piont-buy, where you put them, what class you pick, what feats you take, how well you roll, etc. etc. Yes, you will be 'more powerful' with 36pt, but just not that much.

You may have a couple points more dex, and a couple more points str (for instance) but so what? It just isn't that big of a deal.
Ignore the 25-36, lets look at the ability scores

Do you *really* think
16,14,14,10,9,8
16,15,14,13,12,11
18,16,14,10,10,8

Would be totally unbalanced in play? I tend to think they would be barely noticable.

Heck, if I told one player in secret "As a freebie, add 1 to your AC and all of your rolls" I doubt anyone would notice the 'power imbalance' for years of gaming.

In my current campaign, they all rolled the same dice, and assigned them as they wanted. Yet somehow, there are definitely more and less powerful characters. And yet, they are still having fun.

In a SW game I am playing in, my 9th level character was the lowest, and died. So I brought in a 2nd level character. (we always start at 2nd) You bet I was 'underpowered', but we all still had fun, and there were areas I could hold my own (after a few levels) I will *never* catch up to them in levels, yet I am aleady able to take part and be a contributing member of the party. (now level 7)

I think (IMHO) that become too much emphasize that being uber-balanced is the only way to have fun.

 

[nimisgod]

I would do it, if only to see if I could rise up to the challenge and equal/surpass those PCs with high stats power-wise. Not being brutally competitive, mind you, just being curious to see how my character creation skills match up to others while in a handicap.

 

[Technik4]

Would be totally unbalanced in play? I tend to think they would be barely noticable.

*Claps*

*Cries*

*Claps some more*

Technik