You ever seen a Wizard Dominat @ low LvL?

[triqui]

Did you not use oozes/slimes, plants, undead or animated objects?

As the key encounter in a level 1-3 adventure? No, not ussually. 99% of those adventures have goblins, kobolds, orcs and other similar creatures as key encounter (the key word, is key). Few published adventures (to use as a reference) have the key encounter with plants or oozes, and those with undead, often have a necromancer of some sort leading them (which is vulnerable to sleep).

Even if it "only" dominates the non-plant, ooze and undead encounters, that's like 85% of the CR 1-3

 

[sheadunne]

3x wizards were good at level 1 (especially when you add in PHB II and Complete Mage) and dominated completely by level 5. PF has a slower start but they still get good quickly.

Prior editions were hit or miss, but mostly miss.

4x depends on the player more than anything else, since much relies of position and the grid. I never noticed any runaway train of the wizard.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Listen, if the rogue wants to pay the wizard to dress up in leather and tie him up, who am I to judge what two consenting adventurers do for money in the privacy of their own inn room?

Safe word is "ixitxachitl," though, and that could be tough to say with a Bigby's Forceful Hand in your mouth.

Wait...

 

[Stormonu]

As the key encounter in a level 1-3 adventure? No, not ussually. 99% of those adventures have goblins, kobolds, orcs and other similar creatures as key encounter (the key word, is key). Few published adventures (to use as a reference) have the key encounter with plants or oozes, and those with undead, often have a necromancer of some sort leading them (which is vulnerable to sleep).

Even if it "only" dominates the non-plant, ooze and undead encounters, that's like 85% of the CR 1-3

Trust me, all it takes is the 1% to ruin your day. I had an elvin enchanter whose career ended thanks to getting locked in a room (with the rest of the party) with only 4 ghouls and a ghast (the party cleric got paralyzed in the surprise round). Charm doesn't really help in that kind of a situation. This was a "key" encounter in the published adventure A Dozen and One Adventures (for Al-Qadim).

 

[Mercule]

Dominate what? In a dungeon crawl? Not the whole time. In an encounter? Sure, but no more so than anyone else.

The biggest situation where I saw a low-level wizard dominate is when we engaged in player on player infighting. For some reason, the fighters always wanted to threaten and intimidate the wizard, while the wizard would panic, cast sleep, and slit the offending throats. Even when revenge was sought, the martial characters always seemed to want to bother knocking on the wizard's door. You can chalk it up to stupid players, but that's still the only time I ever saw a low-level wizard make complete buffoons out of the other PCs.

 

[triqui]

Trust me, all it takes is the 1% to ruin your day. I had an elvin enchanter whose career ended thanks to getting locked in a room (with the rest of the party) with only 4 ghouls and a ghast (the party cleric got paralyzed in the surprise round). Charm doesn't really help in that kind of a situation. This was a "key" encounter in the published adventure A Dozen and One Adventures (for Al-Qadim).

I don't think that changes the statement. The wizards did dominate, at low levels, with sleep. In some corner case situations, that wasn't true. But exceptions to the rule don't make the rule become false. For the vast majority of the encounters, the Sleep dominated.

Actually, in AD&D2e, our basic tactic in the key encounters was "protect the wizard until he casts Sleep". Sure, in most other encounters, he was just a guy with a stick. But he completelly dominated the fight "that matters".

 

[Hussar]

Trust me, all it takes is the 1% to ruin your day. I had an elvin enchanter whose career ended thanks to getting locked in a room (with the rest of the party) with only 4 ghouls and a ghast (the party cleric got paralyzed in the surprise round). Charm doesn't really help in that kind of a situation. This was a "key" encounter in the published adventure A Dozen and One Adventures (for Al-Qadim).

That doesn't really prove anything though. Because, even from what you said, the wizard is still dominating the other 99% of encounters.

But, that's hyperbole. No, wizards were not that strong. Not at very low levels. It was usually the other problem for the Lvl 1-3 wizard - too much time hiding in the back ineffectually chucking darts.

Funny thing about using oozes, plants and undead. You just totally hozed the rogue while inconveniencing the wizard - the wizard can just switch spells the next day. The rogue is hosed for the entire adventure.

 

[Stormonu]

That doesn't really prove anything though. Because, even from what you said, the wizard is still dominating the other 99% of encounters.

Well, that's not what I was trying to say. More like it only take the wizard stepping up and discovering he does not having the right spells once to end in disaster. Furthermore, having the right spells (and enough spells) for every encounter is pretty tough. While I certainly had fun in that game while it lasted, I did not dominate in it.

Not to mention that coming back to that particular encounter the next day with a different spell load out was NOT feasible. A lot of times, from what I've seen in published adventures, leaving an encounter and coming back with a "better set of spells" is not a feasible option.

Also, Sleep is nice as long as the opponents are under 4 HD, bunched together (within 20' of each other) and not resistant. I also seem to remember that in at least 1st (and possibly 2nd), an incautious mage could accidentally catch his own allies as well as the enemy (same with Web, and I suspect, Evard's Black Tentacles) - very easy to spoil the spell if allies are in melee with enemies.

 

[Stalker0]

Color Spray.

Nuff said.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Actually, yes. Back in the 80s, I was enamored of the 'low magic campaign.' That's not one without magic-users, just one with very few magic items, and very few magic-using NPCs. The result, counter-intuitively, is that caster PCs can use even 1st and 2nd level spells to really mess with things. Every merchant isn't whacking coins with cold iron to check for fools gold, every guard who sees a door open with no one there doesn't toss flour around the room and sound the pre-arranged 'invisible intruder alert.' And, thus, even at very low level, casters quickly become the stars of the show.