You nerf Haste... what now?

[LokiDR]

First, Hyp, I wasn't really trying to make a case for enervate being an evil act. I was more trying to note that how you use spells can have an alignment impact. I generally agree that enervate, used within reason as a combat spell, is not evil. I do think forcecage is evil.

Swack-Iron: first the name is Loki DR not DM As far as your massive damage friend, two handed fighters aren't common among those I play with. I am not sure for this, but it may be that the powergamers, like me, prefer casters or rogues.

In the CotSQ, I play in, there is an evoker, the staple gun cleric, the shadowdancer trapfinder, the dragon-kin fighter, the tempest, the undead slayer dual wielder, and me as the buff mage. You can see the problem already.

We average 15th level. The dragon-kin has 4 ECL and is 2 or 3 levels below the rest of us. The undead slayer took some PrC from Kingdoms of Kalamar that excludes owning much equipment, and the shadow dancer only has 7d6 sneak attack. None have forced DMD check ever. Even if they did, the DC is only 15.

I see more sub-optimal fighters than clerics or arcane casters. The powergamers I know find melee types too boring to play. Why bother with damage when the wizard can control it's mind or change it into a goldfish.

(edit) The key to your friend's massive damage is x3 multiplier weapon, improve crit feat, and a keen weapon. Our group doesn't want to chance the crit when it counts. I know you can powergame fighters up to that level, but I get board only being able to do that. (/edit)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I do think forcecage is evil.

Uh...

... why?

-Hyp.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Now here we have an interesting piece of debatable terminology.

Defenders of the Faith does indeed point out in a sidebar that "Channeling positive energy is a good act, while channeling evil energy is an evil act".

---schnipp---

My contention, therefore, is that the sidebar stating that channeling positive energy to be a good act refers only to the "direct" channeling uilised by turn attempts, and that the use of spells which involve positive or negative energy are non-aligned, unless they bear an explicit descriptor.

-Hyp.

I agree, more or less. I say that only casting spells with the [Evil] descriptor are an inherently evil act. (The same with other alignment components!).
Casting of other spells can also be an evil act, of course, depending on the situation. And the same is true for turning. Remember that a neutral cleric of a neutral god could rebuke/command undead, and he might rebuke them in order to destroy them faster, or command some undead and set them against the other ones.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Torvo seems a little underequipped in the weapon department. He uses a two-handed weapon, so he probably doesn't have a shield. More money saved

The characters in Enemies and Allies have roughly appropriate gear for their level. I really don't like what they did to Lidda though - she's probably only the second rogue I've seen who doesn't use Weapon Finesse, and she's a halfling! The 15th-level fighter and barbarian in that book both enjoy a +6 Strength-boosting item.

My 15th-level fighter (a PC that I DM, that is), who was made with 25 point buy, has a +2 keen flaming burst sword, made by another party member. (You can roll something like that on the treasure chart, but good luck just buying one.) Then puts a GMW on it. (That reliance on GMW got the cleric killed - a story for anotehr day.)

He dishes out 100+ damage per round - if he lands two crits in a row. An average hit does around 1d10+14 +1d6 damage, so that's about 22 damage per swing, more with Power Attack. That would be around 19-20 damage if it were just a +5 bastard sword.

He crits on a 15-20, and with a flaming burst sword that's a fair amount of d10s.

Incidentally, he didn't use the feat progression from the DMG or E&A. He took Spring Attack, and that feat alone has saved his life on multiple occasions.

 

[Swack-Iron]

Swack-Iron: first the name is Loki DR not DM

Sorry about that.

As far as your massive damage friend, two handed fighters aren't common among those I play with. I am not sure for this, but it may be that the powergamers, like me, prefer casters or rogues.

I'm playing the rogue in that game, with 8 dice of sneak attack and a +3 sword, and I haven't forced a massive damage save yet.

I see more sub-optimal fighters than clerics or arcane casters. The powergamers I know find melee types too boring to play. Why bother with damage when the wizard can control it's mind or change it into a goldfish.

(edit) The key to your friend's massive damage is x3 multiplier weapon, improve crit feat, and a keen weapon. Our group doesn't want to chance the crit when it counts. I know you can powergame fighters up to that level, but I get board only being able to do that. (/edit)

The thing is, Torvo isn't even really powergamed. Optimize, sure. But fighters get so many feats that abilities like Torvo's are pretty common for mid- to high-level fighters.