Your experiences: Are high level 'named' monsters too easy?

[Steelwill]

I think also it might be better to err, if an err must occur, on the side of a big bad named boss monster maybe being a bit too tough rather than too weak. Player's can always get better and try again, but if they run the BBEG down like it was little more than a speed bump, then it will have failed to impress and often won't be bothered with again.

Just as an aside, it seems like the only solo/elites that are getting the job done of being a true menace to the players are the ones who aren't easily shut down with a single status effect, and who have multiple actions per round to counter players.

 

[KarinsDad]

With the possible exception of Tiamat and a few of the latter named foes, here is my basic monster adjustment house rules:

1) All Paragon non-minion creatures do one extra die of damage (D20s changed to 2D10s for those few with them).

2) All Epic non-minion creatures do two extra dice of damage (D20s changed to 2D10s for those few with them).

3) All Paragon and Epic non-minions, non-named monsters, have 75% of their normal hit points.

4) All named monsters (i.e. gods/major demons, etc.) get two standard actions per round.

5) All named monsters (and most dragons) get an automatic class template. This template does not adjust hit points or defenses (for simplicity), but it does add class features, action points, and an At Will, Encounter, Daily, and Utility power.

6) All Elite and Solo monsters get an automatic immediate saving throw (10 or higher, no adjustments) against Stun, Sleep (unconscious), and Petrified effects that save ends (this does not apply to effects that end on a PCs next turn, only save ends effects, it's ok to lock down a major foe for a round, it's not ok to lock down a major foe for 4 rounds).


The purpose of these house rules are a) to speed up combat, b) to make paragon and epic monsters more threatening per attack, c) to add versatility/power via more powers and action points to certain special monsters and d) to minimize PC multi-round locks that just lock down a powerful foe in an encounter. It also encourages players to optimize their PCs for defenses/resists as much as offenses.

I would probably drop #4 and #5 for Tiamat.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

...as Tiamat is a level 35 soldier...

Nitpick: 35th level Brute.

...(Personally Tiamats stats are a problem for me as she has stolen a piece of an artefact that the group need and they will have to get it back from her! – probably before they are level 30)[/COLOR][/FONT]

You can maybe use the repungnant (sp?) fane delve from Draconomicon 1. It's level 29 and results in the party facing Tiamat.

spoilers below: Mesh Hong's players stay out!

Spoiler

You can let them meet Tiamat and let it result in a TPK. Well, without actually having her finish them off. But defeating them all to unconciousness. This will let you be able to force a quest on them from the Dragon Queen plus install some much needed respect/fear of Tiamat in them - and at the same time make them yearn for revenge!

 

[Mesh Hong]

Nitpick: 35th level Brute.

Ah yes, brute.

As for giving my group a reason to want revenge on tiamat, they don't need one. She is already responsible for destroying half the groups home town of about 3000 people, (they have subsequently managed to raise half the population with a massive ritual which involved 500 clerics/wizards gathered from across the world) and has stolen an artefact piece that an ancient gold dragon refused to give to them because it was safer in his hands, (the whole chain of tiamat events started when the PCs raided a Tiamat temple to get a different piece of the artefact in question, Tiamat realised that it was easier and more effective to get another piece of the artefact rather than target the group directly).

The group have a big enough grudge going with the five headed dragon god.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Ah well. It would still solve your "problem" with her stats

 

[Starfox]

6) All Elite and Solo monsters get an automatic immediate saving throw (10 or higher, no adjustments) against Stun, Sleep (unconscious), and Petrified effects that save ends (this does not apply to effects that end on a PCs next turn, only save ends effects, it's ok to lock down a major foe for a round, it's not ok to lock down a major foe for 4 rounds).

I would not lessen save ends effects. We find save ends effects incredibly pathetic. A player of mine had a power that was "until end of your next round" on a miss, "save ends" on a hit - and he was hoping for a miss.

 

[Mesh Hong]

I would not lessen save ends effects. We find save ends effects incredibly pathetic. A player of mine had a power that was "until end of your next round" on a miss, "save ends" on a hit - and he was hoping for a miss.

agreed. Personally I would not recommend this ability on elites, and it would depend on how the Solo was built as to how I would deal with ongoing effects. I find that if a Solo acts more than once in round then a normal (save ends) effect is perfectly acceptable.

 

[KarinsDad]

agreed. Personally I would not recommend this ability on elites, and it would depend on how the Solo was built as to how I would deal with ongoing effects. I find that if a Solo acts more than once in round then a normal (save ends) effect is perfectly acceptable.

How can a solo act more than once per round if it is stunned???

 

[Mesh Hong]

How can a solo act more than once per round if it is stunned???

If it acts on multiple initiatives such as 40 and 30, having a full range of actions on each (or a lesser range depending on design).

Admittedly a effect that states "stunned until the end of players next turn" would still trump it, but that can designed out if necessary by stating "any effect that would stun the creature instead stuns it until the end of its next turn" or the like. Please note that is not always necessary as not every creature needs to have the same anti status effect defences.

 

[KarinsDad]

I would not lessen save ends effects. We find save ends effects incredibly pathetic. A player of mine had a power that was "until end of your next round" on a miss, "save ends" on a hit - and he was hoping for a miss.

Save ends effects are not pathetic if they take away the next round or two of actions of the BBEG, especially if the PC acquires or crafts magic items (e.g. Illusionist's Gloves, Orb of Ultimate Imposition) that modify the save. Orb of Imposition has been nerfed, but there are still ways to make it difficult to make a save.

How many BBEGs is a PC going to run into in a given day?

It also depends on whether the DM is rolling his dice in front of the players or not.

But, you make a good point. This house rule was implemented pre-WotC nerfing of lockdowns. It's probably not needed anymore. On the other hand, many classes have a way to stun an opponent. When fighting a Named Foe or any solo, a group of well designed PCs could try to tag team stun the foe. I'll probably keep the house rule, but change it for solos only.