Your Feelings on Dungeon/Poly

[WizarDru]

Love Dungeon. Love Poly. Incursion rocked the hi-zer-ee-ouse!

And just for the record: so what if I don't plan to use all of the minigames? I like to read them. I pay money and subscribe, too. The only thing that matters is what attracts the most subscribers, frankly.

And even if I never use a particular minigame, the concepts provided inside will fuel my game, giving me lots of ideas, kick-off points and enjoyment.

Hijinx was a high-water mark in that, while I don't plan to use it, they showed me an RPG using d20 that did NOT involve beating the snot of people, and still had drama and action.

Current totals that I'm seeing: 47 like both, 34 +32 for like/indifferent, and 25 playa-hataas. So that's 113 for and 25 against.

 

[WizarDru]

Need to agree with Diaglo here. I have really been disappointed with the adventures in Dungeon for the past few years. Since 3E came out...

Quick note, here: Diaglo hasn't liked it since support for 1E was dropped. Heck, if he had his way, we'd be using OD&D.

 

[Munin]

failed Will save...must reply

So far, I have resisted posting to the pointless dungeon/poly threads like the plague.
I'll finally chip in with my two cents.

I've been a subscriber for two years now, and I just got my renewal notice in the mail.

Ah-ha! Empowerment! Now I can take make a statement!

I subscribed to Dungeon, went it was just Dungeon, obviously, for the D&D adventures.

To date I have used exactly 4 of them, the last one being Tears for Twilight Hollow. Hardly worth two years of subscription costs.
In my opinion the vast majority of the adventures are stale and formulaic. They just don't interest me as a DM.

And yet, I choose to renew my subscription. The mag gets one more chance.

Why? Well, not for the dungeon side. I like the Poly side. Like that old wedge of cheese in the back of the fridge, it grew on me.

Of course, I could like Poly better. If I'm paying for a mini-game, I want one I can run 'out of the box'.
I also want to see more non-D&D adventures.

I still have hope for Dungeon, but that broad has fallen out of favor with me. Maybe if she lost a few pounds and wore some new outfits, she could catch my eye again. But right now the new girl down the street is what keeps me coming back.

Certain comments by the publishers on this site have given me hope, so they get my money one more year. I'll see how it goes.

 

[Erik Mona]

>>>
I still have hope for Dungeon, but that broad has fallen out of favor with me.
>>>

We've put her on a new diet and bought her some better make-up and a few trashy dresses. I think you'll find your subscription well worth the money.

--Erik

 

[d4]

all this talk of broads and trashy dresses and money changing hands sounds like Erik's pimpin' out Dungeon again...

 

[Dr. Niles Crane]

I had never read a Poly until they were included with Dungeon. I'm not sure of what it use to be, but the odd d20 games that usually make up the content seem, for the most part, worthless. The tie in with the Lich Queen adventures was great and I think I wouldn't mind paying for Poly if there was some support for *published* d20 games, whether WotC or otherwise as I've seen other folks suggest, but the silly (IMHO) minigames they put in the back feel like wasted dead trees. Does anyone actually use those games--or more importantly, do enough people actually use them to warrant the loss of more D&D adventures or other content?

Dungeon/Poly is like having a star player on a team forced to carry around an injured, crippled player rather than retiring him or her and further improving the star player. The end result is neither player performs and the fans start to tune out. I just don't get the logic of tying the two together aside from the sentimental "don't let Poly die" arguement. but I would live with it if they could at least make the Poly content USEFUL or INTERESTING. Really, just look at what they've been doing. "Hijinx: Rock, Meddle, Solve Crime" (Dungeon/Poly 99) is a prime example--what are they thinking? If there is really a demand for that, isn't that a niche better filled by smaller d20 publishers or fans on the web? "V for Victory" (Dungon/Poly 97), the WW2 game, isn't that done better elsewhere? Is anyone running a "Thunderball Rally" (Dungeon/Dragon 93) campaign or even a one-shot, or even using it in a d20 Modern campaign?

Sorry for the rant.

 

[d4]

Does anyone actually use those games?

*raises hand*

Thunderball Rally, V for Victory, Hijinx, Iron Lords of Jupiter, Genetech... they're all great. definitely got my money's worth out of them.

Dungeon/Poly is like having a star player on a team forced to carry around an injured, crippled player rather than retiring him or her and further improving the star player. The end result is neither player performs and the fans start to tune out. I just don't get the logic of tying the two together aside from the sentimental "don't let Poly die" arguement.

WRONG. Paizo (and WOTC before them) have repeatedly said that both Dungeon and Polyhedron were hurting financially. removing Polyhedron from Dungeon would drop sales to the point where Dungeon would no longer be commercially viable. the combined format is the only one which keeps sales at a level that ensures continued viability of both magazines.

it's not just "Don't let Poly die", it's also "Don't let Dungeon die."

but I would live with it if they could at least make the Poly content USEFUL or INTERESTING.

it is. not to you, obviously, but there are people who do find what's been published USEFUL and INTERESTING.

"Hijinx: Rock, Meddle, Solve Crime" (Dungeon/Poly 99) is a prime example--what are they thinking?

Hijinx is my favorite d20 game ever published. i think it's the most innovative role-playing game i've seen in the past 18+ years i've been role-playing. just because you don't like it, doesn't mean there aren't those of us who do.

Is anyone running a "Thunderball Rally" (Dungeon/Dragon 93) campaign or even a one-shot, or even using it in a d20 Modern campaign?

*once again, raises hand*

you seem incapable of believing there could be gamers who have a different taste in games than you.

Sorry for the rant.

you're excused.

 

[Dr. Niles Crane]

Fair enough, d4: obviously we have different tastes and you've proven there is at least one person that has found the minigames useful and fun, so I stand corrected. Forgive me, yee of wizard hit points for my outburst! Mmmmm...the taste of crow is quite delicious!

I suspect d4 probably is in a very small minority of folks playing "Iron Lords of Jupiter" this weekend, but if there are plenty of folks out there using the mini d20 games, then obvious Paizo would have good business sense in continuing to do it--or even doing more of it...here's an idea: why not have Dungeon contain two d20 games per month and an adventure just once in awhile? Or better yet, give the d20 games their own magazine and bring back good old Dungeon...ah, nevermind. Y'all know where that argument is headed.

If it's true Poly has bumped up Dungeon's circulation over the long term (i.e. people are renewing subscriptions and circulation is growing, thus folks like the new format), they'd be smart keeping that going and keeping the format the same regardless of what annoying old timers like me say ("I remember back in the day...when Dungeon had four to six...ADVENTURES!....zzzzzz..."). However, I'd bet that in a year, we'll see that's not the case--if it's not happening already. Dungeon might have been sick before, but fusing Poly to it feels more like a bandaid than fixing the heart of the problem. Which brings up [tangent], why was Dungeon having such a hard time keeping going as early as a year ago?

Regardless, I wouldn't have any complaint if the standard was more along the lines of issue #100, with material useful for D&D since rather than the flavor of the month d20...again, matter of taste. The game is "Dungeons and Dragons" after all: I've always thought the two magazines (at least since 3rd edition) have had a high level of quality and really complimented one another well. I for one would welcome more adventures monthly from Dungeon (never have run one as is, but have pulled tons of ideas/names/maps/etc. from them) and given a magazine with 4 to 6 adventures per month, would gladly pay more. $10 an issue? Sure, I'd pay that without blinking any eye...heck, I pay that for one 48 page adventure at the local hobby shop and don't get near the quality in many cases. Certainly I wouldn't get the counter pages and other extras, all of which I use often.

But then again, perhaps I'm missing the many "Hijinxs" campaigns that have started up or the thousands of folks lining up to buy the hybrid Dungeon/Poly...if so, then "Rock, Meddle, & Solve Crime" like the freebirds you are and I'll crawl back in my cave.

 

[Erik Mona]

>>>
Which brings up [tangent], why was Dungeon having such a hard time keeping going as early as a year ago?
>>>

One primary factor is that the magazine business is _really_ reeling from the economic downturn over the past couple years. Big-name magazines (Red Herring, McCalls/Rosie, Next Gen, and now Penthouse) have been dropping like flies relatively recently. When people have less money, one of the first things they drop is magazines.

There are other factors (just as other factors contributed to the difficulty with the above magazines, to be sure), but that's probably the main one.

The good news is that, with the combination of the magazines, we've been able to keep delivering the goods to our readers, and plan to do so for a long time. I'll be making some changes to the content mix to make sure the magazine pleases as many readers as possible, so I encourage you to keep reading.

--Erik

 

[Dr. Niles Crane]

I'm still not sold on the mini d20 games and my Dungeon renewal form just arrived in the mail last week, which got me thinking about the change in content since I last renewed. I was mulling over whether to pony up the $45 for another year, and that got me going on replying to this thread rather than my usual lurking. But y'know, I just realized a good ole average gamer joe can vent and whine some, yet the head honcho of Dungeon/Polyhedren notices, takes it in stride, and answers. I can't think of any other publication where that would happen (except Dragon of course) and you've just convinced me to renew for another year. After all, if Penthouse can't stay in business, what's this world coming to?

Sorry for the earlier rant; I know you the staff must be doing the best job possible, which isn't easy in this economy. I think the adventure quality is very high and the adventure path series is a great idea too--no complaints there. I'm just greedy and want more!