Your opinion of The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant? (SPOILER CAUTION)

[SableWyvern]

Um...

Bad intelligence or not, I think the books make it pretty clear that Hile Troy's whole mentality was one that simply was never going to succeed - even if he could win battle after battle, conventional military thinking would never win the war. Yeah, he did the best he could do with an intrinsically flawed plan and mentality. He was valiant, noble, and not too arrogant. He deserves to be remembered and revered in story and song forever. But, again, none of that changes the fact that his logic, in context, was ultimately flawed, faulty and bound to fail.

As to making firearms, there is a big difference between knowing how to use firearms, and making them. There are plenty of people on these boards, I am sure, who can use computers to do amazing things. They can buy a heap of components and put them together to create a working computer.

However, take the most computer-skilled person on en-world, give him 2,000 people from the Land, and Land-level technology, and tell him to start making computers, and I don't think he'd have got very far by the time he was dead.

Even a gunsmith usually works with some pre-fabricated equipment that he himself can't make. In the Land he would not only have to make guns, but invent the tools, technology and infrastructure that would allow him to do so.

 

[Rhialto]

I'm with Sablewyvern on this one Edena--you're thinking about this in terms that are completely off. Lord Foul isn't some independent Dark Lord you can just kill off--he's the living avatar of Despite, the capability for self-hate. You can't beat him, or destroy him--you can only accept his existence, and defy him. The "pretty rock garden" and the "tree city" in their own way offer a greater hope of withstanding Foul than a thousand gun factories...

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I thought the books were a mix of really good ideas and some really awful ideas.

The name "Kevin Landwaster" for one. Kevin is not, nor will it ever be, a heroic name suitable for an ancestral hero. Sorry.

And there were other things that irritated me to. But some of the ideas, like Vain, the whole concept of Covenant being powered up until he literally couldn't use his power without destroying the world and the Giants were great.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I am surprised

I am, indeed, surprised at the results of my poll.

I thought that this poll would result in a large number of responses in the 0 to 4 range.
There is, indeed, one 0 vote.
However, all of the other votes are 5 or higher, or are in the good and bad category, or these books transcend the poll category.

I see that people think quite highly of the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.
At least, those who answered the poll, think highly of the Chronicles.

People seem to detest Thomas Covenant himself, but they very much appreciate and respect the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

I myself was one of those who gave the Chronicles a high rating, so I am happy to see others agree with me that the books were good.
Cheers!

- - -

Now, wait a minute ...
You say Hile Troy was misguided about things.
You say Hile Troy thought he could win against Lord Foul by force of arms, that this was impossible, and the man was deluded to think such?
Fair enough.

So why did the Lords agree to Hile Troy's plans?
Why did so many of the Lords go along with the Warward?
It sounds to me like the Lords, also, thought that might of arms would serve them against Lord Foul.
They did NOT take Thomas Covenant with them, when the Warward marched south. And only in Thomas Covenant, did they have any real chance of winning by force of arms, against Fleshharrower.
So, they must have felt they could take on Lord Foul's army, by force of arms, without Thomas Covenant!
They agreed with Hile Troy. They were deceived, like Hile Troy ...

Or ...

Perhaps force of arms, was the best answer they had.
What else could they do? Sit in Revelstone until Fleshharrower showed up, and then lay down their arms and surrender? I don't think so.
Still, they should have taken the Unbeliever with them. Maybe he might have been of some actual use ... probably not, but then, with Covenant accidents happened, and some of them even did some good.

Now, I must differ about Revelwood (the tree city) and the Stone Garden of Trothgard.
This bit of endeavor, on the part of the Lords, was idiotic, whether it was a repudiation of what Lord Foul stood for or not.
NOBODY in their right mind plants a garden when a tidal wave is coming, or fiddles when Rome is burning (unless they are Nero, and he was crazy.)
People have this tendency to want to LIVE.
And they will ... not ... live, if they plant tree cities and build stone gardens, while an enemy raises an army of 400 thousand.
So, I must state that I think the Lords were the most incompetent and misguided of rulers ... and the people of the Land paid in blood for this stupid policy. Revelwood was eventually attacked, 2000 men choose to defend the undefendable city of trees, and they were all slaughtered.
Those 2000 men were desperately needed at Revelstone, which could be defended, and where - as Lord Mhoram stated - they could extract the highest price for their lives.

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: I am surprised

So why did the Lords agree to Hile Troy's plans?

Simple, because they were misguided. They did not have Kevin's full knowledge, because they were not wise enough to use it. Do you think it was an accident that he hid the secrets of power to be revealed only when people had gained enough wisdom to know how to use them?

Why did so many of the Lords go along with the Warward?
It sounds to me like the Lords, also, thought that might of arms would serve them against Lord Foul.

Which is why they were unable to unlock Kevin's lost knowledge. They sought power to meet power, just as Elena did when she summoned Kevin to confront Lord Foul. Kevin knew this was doomed to fail, and pointed this out.

They did NOT take Thomas Covenant with them, when the Warward marched south. And only in Thomas Covenant, did they have any real chance of winning by force of arms, against Fleshharrower.

They had no chance of winning by force of arms. Lord Foul could not be defeated that way, with Thomas Covenant or without him.

So, they must have felt they could take on Lord Foul's army, by force of arms, without Thomas Covenant!
They agreed with Hile Troy. They were deceived, like Hile Troy ...

Thinking something to be true, and it actually being true are different things. They lacked the wisdom to udnerstand the nature of their folly.

 

[Rhialto]

Plus, we must remember that Mhorham was uncertain about Troy's plans, but was overruled by Elena and the others, and being an all-around great guy, went along with things to give what help he could.