Your opinion on Light and Darkness interaction?

[Thanee]

Ok, I have a little problem with the Light and Darkness spells, specifically the way they interact, if brought into the same area or cast within the area of the other.

Here are some quotes to add to the confusion...

Normal lights (torches, candles, lanterns, and so forth) are incapable of brightening the area, as are light spells of lower level. Higher level light spells are not affected by darkness.

Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower spell level.

Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.

Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.

So, what happens to the various spells/spell effects in the following cases?

Which spell is dispelled or negated and what light condition remains (assume the area is lit by nonmagical torchlight, which is suppressed by the Darkness)?

1a) A Daylight spell effect is brought into the area of a Darkness spell effect.
1b) A Daylight spell effect is brought into the area of two overlapping Darkness spell effects.
1c) A 3rd level heightened Light spell effect is brought into the area of a Darkness spell effect.
1d) A 3rd level heightened Light spell effect is brought into the area of two overlapping Darkness spell effects.

2a) A Daylight spell is cast within the area of a Darkness spell effect.
2b) A Daylight spell is cast within the area of two overlapping Darkness spell effects.
2c) A 3rd level heightened Light spell is cast within the area of a Darkness spell effect.
2d) A 3rd level heightened Light spell is cast within the area of two overlapping Darkness spell effects.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Because the description in the text says "any" instead of "a" I would say that overlapping darkness spells don't change the fact that daylight will dispel them. As to the heightened spells, I have no idea

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Silveras]

Here is how I understand the effects to interact (using descriptors, not spell names):

If a higher-level light spell is brought into the area of a darkness spell, the darkness spell is suppressed and the light spell functions normally

If a light spell of equal level to the darkness spell is brought within the area of the darkness spell, both spells are suppressed by each other, and the non-magical lighting conditions apply.

If a light spell of lower level is brought into the area of a darkness spell, the light spell is suppressed, and the darkness spell functions normally.

A light spell may be cast as a counterspell to a darkness spell of equal or lower level.

A darkness spell may be cast as a counterspell to a light spell of equal or lower level.

A light spell may be cast (presumably at the darkness spell) to dispel a darkness spell of equal or lower level.

A darkness spell may be cast (presumably at the light spell) to dispel a light spell of equal or lower level.

The number of overlapping areas does not matter; the levels of the spells creating those areas does matter.

Heighten spell changes the actual level of the spell. A sufficiently-heightened version of the normally 0-level light spell "light" will over-ride or can be used to dispel the 2nd-level darkness spell "darkness".

 

[Thanee]

That's what I think as well, how it should work, Silveras, and it's basically the reason why I ask this question, since the rules seem not to be very supportive of this view. :\

The only thing they say is that Daylight (specifically) and any kind of magical darkness negate each other (Deeper Darkness says the same, just specific to itself and Daylight not in the general way with magical darkness), while Darkness basically says, that it cannot affect Daylight.

Also the dispelling issues, as normally, like with Haste and Slow, the spells automatically dispel each other.

Bye
Thanee

 

[DrSpunj]

Also the dispelling issues, as normally, like with Haste and Slow, the spells automatically dispel each other.

I asked similar questions after 3.0 was released and got similar answers, so I've been ruling this way as well. BUT...I never got a satisfactory answer on this last part you bring up.

Haste & Slow have Ranges of Close, while Light, Darkness Daylight and Deeper Darkness all have a Range of Touch. So my question is this:

If I'm in an area of Deeper Darkness and go to cast Daylight to dispel the darkness effect, do I have to touch the object chosen as the center of the Deeper Darkness spell to do it? Realize it's dark, so you can't really look for it.

And even if you could somehow see, how would you know where about to look? A Spellcraft check?

As the DM would you say picking the correct 5' square is enough? Or do you just have to be somewhere within the 60' darkness/light area of effect to automatically dispel it?

Help!

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[sfedi]

I rule exactly as Silveras.

On the last matter, however, I rule that if you can touch de spell effect (i.e. cast it in it's area of effect) you can dispel it.
Otherwise, it's too difficult to be useful.

 

[Andre]

Heighten spell changes the actual level of the spell. A sufficiently-heightened version of the normally 0-level light spell "light" will over-ride or can be used to dispel the 2nd-level darkness spell "darkness".

Which is exactly why I like to use heightened continual flame spells. Cast on a pebble or coin, put it in a pouch. Pull out as soon as someone casts any form of darkness.

Worked well in my last game. The entire party had some form of darkvision, so we had no light source active. The enemy sorcerer cast a darkness spell. I yanked out the pebble - no more darkness. The GM hated that.

 

[Silveras]

That's what I think as well, how it should work, Silveras, and it's basically the reason why I ask this question, since the rules seem not to be very supportive of this view. :\

The only thing they say is that Daylight (specifically) and any kind of magical darkness negate each other (Deeper Darkness says the same, just specific to itself and Daylight not in the general way with magical darkness), while Darkness basically says, that it cannot affect Daylight.

Also the dispelling issues, as normally, like with Haste and Slow, the spells automatically dispel each other.

Bye
Thanee

A light spell (one with the light descriptor) counters and dispels a darkness spell (one with the darkness descriptor) of an equal or lower level.

Darkness counters or dispels any light spell of an equal or lower level.

The problem, I think, is that these are presented as general rules in the body of specific spells. The most sense I can make is that, whichever one is NOW being cast can be used to counter/dispel an existing effect of equal or lower level.

 

[sfedi]

Of course Silveras.
The ability to counter or dispel is something only a spell being cast can do.
A spell already in effect, cannot counter nor dispel anything (unless that's the effect of the spell, of course)

 

[Thanee]

The big problem with countering is, that you need to be in range, and the range is touch.

Bye
Thanee