Your Prc gets nerfed!!! what to do?

[JPL]

I've heard paladin players complain about the 3.5e revision to the special mount, even though it made the class ability more useful.

All I'm saying is, don't be too quick to judge. A player's dissatisfaction with rules changes can come from any number of sources, including a simple dislike of the flavor, or difficulty in reconciling the new rule with the character's past actions.

Good point re: Pokemount.

But are the changes to the weretouched master affecting the flavor or just the power level?

 

[pawsplay]

That's a strawman though. And, ignoring the point as well.

The player is considering chucking the class, not because he knows what the changes are, but, because his power level is getting scaled back.

To turn the question around: If you were told that there were errata on the WOTC site for the wizard class and the DM was considering using them, would your first reaction be to chuck your wizard? Before you even know what those errata were?

QFT

You're calling strawman pretty quick. The player does, certainly, know the errata was implemented to scale back some class abilities. If he's happy with the way the character is playing now, he can reasonably expect to be less happy. The idea that the group magically benefits is Handicapper General kind of argument; in fact, if the group is enjoying the character, too, everyone loses.

 

[FireLance]

But are the changes to the weretouched master affecting the flavor or just the power level?

Both, if I remember correctly. I think the original ability was similar to a true lycanthrope's ability to assume an animal form or a hybrid form, and some forms (bear and tiger) granted some hefty bonuses to the character's physical stats.

The revised version granted the ability to spend two shifting uses to assume animal form for a number of rounds (no hybrid form), plus some smaller bonuses to physical ability scores when shifting.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

No more contrived than explaining why suddenly the shifter is out of the party and some new guy is in.

Duh! He got eaten by a giant were-squirrel. Noone would disbelieve that (or they would be next!)

 

[Gundark]

This problem is one created by the DM. Yes, Gundark, I'm looking at you. To me, it was painfully obvious that the Weretouched Master was a poorly thought out, prone-to-abuse PrC, right from the get go.

Yes I do accept some responsibility for this. I think that this one snuck by me as this player isn't normally a power gamer. Does he make effective characters? Sure. But he doesn't usually go out of his way to make characters with power overwhelming? No. Even with the WTM Prc he didn't go "all out" with the class. Should I have checked for errata before he annouced his intention to to choose tha PRc? Yep, lesson learned.

We played last night and I talked to the player before game and we came to a compromise.

However a new player joined last night to fill a slot left by another. This new guy is from the local RPGA. Another guy at my table who also is with the RPGA warned me that this guy is a total min-maxer, however I thought I'd give him a chance.

Wow...With his PRc (this class from complete mage that lets skirmish damage be done with ray spells) he ended up doing over 100 points of damage with scoring rays in one round. Now I know we're level 15 but dang... I'm gonna pull out the nerf hammer. He made the character with books I don't have (which is a table rule no-no). I allowed him to try it out with the understanding that I reserved the right to nerf if abused. So I'm gonna reserve the right.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Wow...With his PRc (this class from complete mage that lets skirmish damage be done with ray spells) he ended up doing over 100 points of damage with scoring rays in one round.

How?

Surely there was a rod of quicken metamagic involved, yes? And good damage rolls? And a crit, maybe?

 

[Slaved]

How?

A maximized scorching ray at caster level 11 with all hitting does 72 assuming no crits. For a 15th level caster that is a 5th level slot, without a rod, while he has up to 8th level slots to use. It really does not take much to pop over the 100hp mark. With or without some prc. A simple quickened scorching ray plus maximzed is a 6th and a 5th level slot with an average of 114 if all hit without crits.


For the thread at hand though I would suggest making a new character sheet using the errata and seeing how the new and the old compare. After that figure out what baseline for this level you, as a dm, would be comfortable with and see where the player would also be comfortable with.

Adding in extra flavor and some fun abilities which do not overtly effect overall power usually helps a player like things more while giving the dm no new worries.

I assume everyone would be happier if the same character stayed. Going through the effort to make everyone happy seems worthwhile.

If it becomes complicated come here and put up the problem, the builds, and ask for solutions with you and the player having direct input. Maybe that will work.

 

[Phlebas]

As someone who was going to take a level in WM for my Ranger, (and ended up taking it even after the DM produced the erratta but only after a lot of thought) I can see how the PC would be brassed off. IMHO the WM as written was over the top, BUT the changes have been too severe & should at least have been balanced with better BAB, skill points or alternative abilities (something my DM and i are still discussing...he wants to give more changes per day as a simple solution)

But there is a simple solution - rebuild the last 5 levels - (ignore the PHBII rules, just rewrite history) and optimises the build as much as you can and make sure the DM is 'generous' in this (including allowing re-purchase of magic items if theres a reasonable argument that a different choice would be made)

If the player really, really wants the shifting abilities, you can always inflict him with true lycanthropy.....

 

[Gundark]

A maximized scorching ray at caster level 11 with all hitting does 72 assuming no crits. For a 15th level caster that is a 5th level slot, without a rod, while he has up to 8th level slots to use. It really does not take much to pop over the 100hp mark. With or without some prc. A simple quickened scorching ray plus maximzed is a 6th and a 5th level slot with an average of 114 if all hit without crits.
.

Not to mention that the Unseen seer Prc adds +d6 every couple of levels to skirmish/sneak attack. Which can be applied to Scoring ray. Move 10 feet and blast away. SR isn't much of deterrent as there is the spell which adds +10 to SR checks for rounds per caster lervel.

Gotta love the 3.5 power creep

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Just goes to show it's been too long since I played a proper blaster.